Trayvon Martin Case Prompts Civil Rights Commission Investigation On Stand Your Ground Laws

[Major Nikon]

31. Feel free to list when "presumption of innocence" was suspended in the US, because I can't find it

You didn't read the link? Justifiable homicide is not a crime. Under DTR, you are charged with murder, but you use self defense as an affirmative defense. Justifiable homicide includes self defense. Therefore, you have to prove that you are innocent of murder or manslaughter.

You aren't charged with murder unless there is evidence of murder. It's a pretty simple concept really which existed well before the recent laws were enacted. You're simply repeating the same hogwash that was used to justify these fucked up laws in the first place. Where's all the cases where innocent people were being charged with murder? Most, if not all states, had already rejected the "duty to retreat" in all but the most egregious circumstances well before all these ALEC/NRA nutbag written bullshit shoot-first laws were enacted. You also make it sound as if "duty to retreat" is a bad thing. It isn't. A guy in Florida shot an unarmed drunk man who happened to ring the wrong doorbell in the middle of the night. "Duty to retreat" would have required him at the very least to do the sensible thing and go back inside his home. Instead he shot the man AFTER he put his hands up, then got away free thanks to the fucked up law.

Name one. The public outcry was the MSM doing a trial by media, AKA electronic lynching. Much of the MSM's reports were wrong and incomplete. I'll wait for the real trial to decide Zimmerman.

I'll name several.

* Two men argue whether a teenager should be allowed to skateboard in a Tampa park. The fight ends with one man shooting the other dead in front of his 8-year-old daughter.
* A 15-year-old died after two gangs brawled in Tallahassee, leaving no one accountable for his death.
* A man shot and killed two people during an altercation aboard a 35-foot sailboat anchored near Riviera Beach.
* A driver attacked and killed another with an ice pick during a road rage incident.
* The owner of a towing company killed a man he claimed tried to run him over while retrieving his car from an impound lot.
* A car salesman shot another man in a barroom argument over cigarettes.
* A decorated Army veteran and father of two was killed outside his elderly mother’s Cape Coral home after a neighbor mistook him for a thief.
* A drunken Land ‘O Lakes man was shot, but not killed, after he mistakenly tried the door at the wrong house in his neighborhood.
* A man chased and killed a burglar in Miami and successfully claimed self-defense, though he shot the man in the back.
http://floridavoices.com/columns/susan-clary/too-many-deaths-name-self-defense

Care to name any of these cases where innocent people are being convicted of murder? The NRA and ALEC couldn't, so I don't expect you'll have much luck either.

Shoot first was a marketing term used by propagandists over Colorado's Castle doctrine. SYG is the accepted term. It is older than ALEC. California has been SYG 110 years before Florida.

The bullshit call is a pretty easy one to make here. First of all, when a law allows an aggressor to use deadly force, it can no longer legitimately be called "stand your ground", that's why "shoot first" is what the actual law is. Evidently you consider groups like Dailykos, Media Matters, Thinkprogress, Democracynow, and CSGV as "propagandists" while the fruits and nuts like LaPierre and ALEC have it right. Kinda makes you go, hmmmmm.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/23/1077185/-Why-Stand-Your-Ground-Is-Actually-Shoot-First-
http://www.csgv.org/issues-and-campaigns/guns-democracy-and-freedom/shoot-first-laws
http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/20/floridas_shoot_first_law_critiqued_by
http://mediamatters.org/blog/201203230014
http://thinkprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Shoot-First-Backgrounder-Short-Form.doc

Furthermore the Castle Doctrine laws that were on the books prior to 2005 are nothing at all like the Florida law and the virtual carbon copies that were furnished and promoted by ALEC and the NRA. In almost all instances, they referenced the right of self defense inside the home. Most of the fucked up ALEC/NRA bullshit laws that came about after 2005 extend that premise to virtually anywhere and in some cases even protect the aggressor. So if you think these new laws are like the old laws, you probably haven't read or at least understood the differences.