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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
57. And positive practices.
Thu Apr 28, 2016, 02:25 PM
Apr 2016

A culture's religion often reflects how that culture sees itself, it is a means of keeping a group of people united. The most recent example of this was Communism, while technically Communism said it was atheistic, communism itself had a set of dogma (Which is what Religion is) that it held to be true, and feedback that supported that dogma was emphasis, while things that showed otherwise were either ignore, dismissed or attacked (and you can see the same thing among right wing Capitalists, for capitalism is their "Religion", you do NOT need to believe in God to have a Religion).

A society's religion will reflect what is good for that society as a whole. When it fails to do so, the religion of that society changes. One of the most radical change was when Christianity replaced the Pagan Religions of Europe. When the Roman Empire almost fell in the 200s, the reason it did not was the people of Europe wanted to be untied for being one Nation enhanced their standard of living. The problem was the people of Europe did not have what has been traditional means of unifying a people, they did not have any common bloodlines, tribal backgrounds, nationality, language or religion. Common bloodlines, tribal backgrounds, language and religion are the tools of unity when people want to be one people. A recent example of this is that the "Common Language" of the EU is English. which was one way to unite Europe today (The problem with the EU today, is the elite of Europe want to be one nation, but the people of Europe have their doubts). The US has a common Language, English and a common set of belief as to the role of Government (which includes the separation of Church and State) and that set of beliefs are the common religion of the US (Those beliefs have a strong Christian tradition, but also a strong tradition of saying those beliefs are NOT Christian or religious, the religion of any people do not have to make sense to people outside that nation, thus the fact the US is both Christian AND rejects Christianity as a state Religion is perfectly acceptable to most Americans).

Christianity was the uniting force adopted by the late Roman Empire. Subsequent to that change, Europe then split into the Latin Catholic Western Europe and Greek Orthodox Eastern Europe and Islamic Arab Speaking North Africa and Middle East, the language supported the religion, which in turn supported the common language (And these three regions of the Roman Empire were using Latin, Greek and Egyptian prior to the crisis of the 200s). Notice the language and Religion SURVIVED the fall of the Roman Empire (Ancient Egyptian is closely related to Modern Arabic thus the switch from Egytian to Arabic was NOT that radical a change in Language).

When the Empire fell do to internal stresses (you can NOT have the 1% own to much of your country, which is what happened to the Roman Empire when it fell, the part of the Roman Empire that Survived into the Dark Ages was the Area of the Empire with the smallest ownership of land by its 1%), the desire to be one nation survived for almost another 1000 years in the form of the Catholic Church in Western Europe (and Orthodoxy in Eastern Europe). The beliefs of each religion, Catholicism (Protestantism only split with Catholicism in the 1500s), Orthodoxy and Islam tends to reflect the needs of the people in that part of the world where they are the dominate religion (as does Buddhism it that part of the World where Buddhism is the dominate religion). Communism did the same thing for Russia after 1917 till 1989.

My point is religion is a tool of unifying a people and as such Religion tends to support what is good for those people as a whole. When a religion stops helping a people as a whole, it is either replaced, or adapts to the new situation. Russia and Mexico became anti-Christian countries after their revolutions in the 1910s. This rejection of Christianity reflected a belief that Christianity was holding both countries back. In response both the Catholic Church in Mexico and the Orthodox church in Russia adapted (with some violence on both sides) and is strong in both nations today.

My point is a country's religion reflect how that country sees itself and unify itself. Religion is one of the factors that holds a country together (along with a Common Language and a share belief that the people are one nation). This occurs mostly through positive feed backs, that most people accept. Yes, you have negative feedbacks, but such negative feedbacks tend to be small compared to the positive feedbacks. Most "Negative Feed backs" appear negative to outsiders, but to insiders appear positive. The Classic case of this are the "Taboos" of various societies, for example Arabs and Jews refuse to eat Pork. Why? Pigs use as much water as a human being, thus in a desert community, for every pig you have, you can support one less person. That is NOT true of Sheep or Goats, the preferred animals of desert dwellers. The reason for this is simple, given the same restrictions on water, sheep and goat herders can support more warriors then a desert tribe herding pigs and thus a ban on pigs makes desert communities stronger then desert communities that do keep pig. Thus people who embrace a ban on pigs are stronger desert communities. From someone living in a society with access to cheap water a ban on pigs makes no sense, but to a desert community it makes perfect sense.

Now, Jews and Arabs who move to jungle areas do start consuming pork, for avoiding pork cost them nothing in such situation (and many Eastern Europeans raised pigs for after the Mongols of the Golden Horde embraced Islam, on raids into Eastern Europe they saw no value in pigs, thus the freedom to raise pigs by Eastern European enhanced their religion, which permitted raising of pig. With the Golden Horde defeated by Catherine the Great the advantages of raising pigs disappeared but again no loss if you raise pigs in Eastern Europe).

Just a comment that Religion has both positive feedback loops in addition to the much rarer negative feedback loops.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Child abuse on a massive scale oberliner Feb 2016 #1
"AS YOUNG AS 11????" - DAMN! Herman4747 Feb 2016 #2
The behavior of Muhammad has nothing to do with Islam - Coventina Feb 2016 #5
LOL!! Yeah that definitely deserves a... Herman4747 Feb 2016 #6
The pretzels some twist leftynyc Feb 2016 #9
Mohammad marriage to Aisha was political not sexual happyslug Feb 2016 #11
so if times have changed, why has the interpretion of the religion not changed? patsimp Feb 2016 #15
As I pointed out 12 was the generally accepted age of consent to marriage till the 1800s happyslug Feb 2016 #30
Any chance we can apply modern laws to what is essentially child rape? patsimp Mar 2016 #41
Which set of modern laws? happyslug Mar 2016 #43
it's the religion of love snooper2 Apr 2016 #54
Technically correct... TipTok Apr 2016 #62
Don't worry, some DUers will post that American Christians are worse Democat Feb 2016 #3
American christians send millions of jobs to India, one of the most dangerous whereisjustice Feb 2016 #13
they went to china first. People really seem to hate India on this site. patsimp Feb 2016 #16
They went to Central America and Mexico first... but in terms of exploited and abused women whereisjustice Feb 2016 #17
not from what i've read. Pakistan, Yemen, Saudi Arabia come first patsimp Feb 2016 #19
It's a dubious distinction. India is high on the list. And as far as where we send jobs whereisjustice Feb 2016 #22
The country mentioned is actually Bangladesh, not India muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #21
I'm citing India as a place where we send jobs inspite of horrible human rights record whereisjustice Feb 2016 #23
kicked and recced Arazi Feb 2016 #4
Well, pass laws that no marriage can be recognized under a certain age. Yo_Mama Feb 2016 #7
Fuckin' religion valerief Feb 2016 #8
This pre dates Islam happyslug Feb 2016 #31
True, it's a feedback loop Bradical79 Apr 2016 #56
And positive practices. happyslug Apr 2016 #57
Fuckin' this particular religion, Nye Bevan Apr 2016 #60
how can they get a spouse visa on an invalid marriage? mopinko Feb 2016 #10
We must respect their "culture" or some shit. nt awoke_in_2003 Feb 2016 #12
It doesn't say they get a visa, it says they get the *promise* of a visa muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #18
so disgusting. mopinko Feb 2016 #20
General rule on foreign marriages, they are treated as valid. happyslug Feb 2016 #32
Yes, the UK doesn't give visas for spouses until they're 18 muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #33
Notice the language the person APPLYING for a visa must be over 18, not his wife. happyslug Feb 2016 #34
It applies to both; findlaw didn't say that, but bradfordlawcentre does muriel_volestrangler Feb 2016 #37
this is disgusting patsimp Feb 2016 #14
"when they become 'too western'," keithbvadu2 Feb 2016 #24
why come to western countries then? patsimp Feb 2016 #25
To join with their ilk like Duck Dynasty? keithbvadu2 Feb 2016 #38
That's the one that always gets me Recursion Mar 2016 #44
and we are allowing this patsimp Mar 2016 #49
I was going to say something similar. smirkymonkey Apr 2016 #58
In my culture this is sick scubasteve76 Feb 2016 #26
Doesn't matter. A child is a child. Laws override culture. shenmue Feb 2016 #27
.^that 840high Feb 2016 #28
my mistake scubasteve76 Mar 2016 #39
At one point it was culturally acceptable to own slaves in this country. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2016 #48
We are supposed to say 'Stop raping that child'... TipTok Apr 2016 #63
It's sad. romanic Mar 2016 #47
It means something to the girl who has her life stolen Marrah_G Mar 2016 #46
+1000 smirkymonkey Apr 2016 #59
Enjoy your time at DU Democat Apr 2016 #51
it is sick no matter what the "reason" Skittles Apr 2016 #61
My wife is Pakistani AngryAmish Feb 2016 #29
too many want to keep all the culture that made them want to leave in the first place MariaThinks Feb 2016 #35
I don't think they left because leftynyc Feb 2016 #36
"Anyone who agrees to marry off their 11 year old daughters ought to be thrown the fuck out." Nihil Mar 2016 #40
This is shocking to me patsimp Mar 2016 #42
sick, sick culture Skittles Mar 2016 #45
Message auto-removed Name removed Apr 2016 #50
Some will call you an "islamophobe" Quantess Apr 2016 #52
Using the Times of India as a source again. Bad Dog Apr 2016 #53
I doubt the law of the UK would allow a visa in that situation treestar Apr 2016 #55
is a marriage done via Skype a legal marriage ? n/t Angel Martin Apr 2016 #64
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