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In reply to the discussion: Clinton aide reported to have walked out of FBI interview [View all]paulthompson
(2,398 posts)131. Yes
This is a whole other can of worms.
I talked about it in the essay I wrote a week ago:
http://thompsontimeline.com/IS_CLINTON'S_EMAIL_SCANDAL_FOR_REAL%3F
Specifically, this part:
How do we know the FBI has recovered Clinton's deleted emails?
In late August 2015, a week after the FBI took possession of Clinton's private email server, Clinton's campaign acknowledged "that there was an attempt to wipe her server before it was turned over last week to the FBI. But two sources with direct knowledge of the investigation told NBC News... that the bureau may be able to recover at least some data." In September 2015, Bloomberg News reported that, "Once the emails have been extracted, a group of agents has been separating personal correspondence and passing along work-related messages to agents leading the investigation..." That same month, The New York Times reported that according to two unnamed government officials, "It was not clear whether the entire trove of roughly 60,000 emails had been found on the server, but one official said it had not been very hard for the FBI to recover the messages." In late March 2016, the Los Angeles Times reported that since the FBI took possession of Clinton's private server on August 12, 2015, the FBI has "recovered most, if not all, of the deleted correspondence, said a person familiar with the investigation."
That the FBI did not find it hard to recover the emails says to me that all of her deleted emails have been recovered. Furthermore, there were multiple copies of her server, so the FBI probably didn't have any trouble at all if only one server copy was wiped that is, overwritten repeatedly so that old data cannot be recovered. When a company named Platte River Networks took over management of Clinton's email server in mid-2013, it transferred all the contents of her server onto a new server and managed that, but also kept the old server, and the FBI eventually took possession of both servers. Plus, Platte River Networks had a contract with another company called Datto, which made monthly copies of the server in the cloud. But Platte River Networks didn't know this was happening since they didn't ask for it or pay for it, and they only found out about it after the FBI had taken the servers away.
Did Clinton obstruct the investigation?
The Datto monthly backups not only would ensure the FBI had copies of all the deleted emails, but also would also allow the FBI to figure out which month the emails were deleted. Clinton has never indicated when the deletion happened; she could be in more trouble if it happened after December 2014, when the State Department formally asked for copies of all her emails.
Clinton's lawyer David Kendall has asserted that the server was never wiped. He has said the emails were merely deleted in the normal way one deletes email from one's inbox, and then they were permanently deleted after 30 or 60 days in the deletion folder. But the NBC News report mentioned above specifically says the emails were wiped. That's another indicator of destruction of evidence.
Wiping those deleted emails further suggests there was material in them that Clinton didn't want the FBI to see. Keep in mind that Clinton has said that she turned over not only all her emails that were work-related emails, but also any that may have been in doubt just to be on the safe side. On August 10, 2015, just two days before the FBI took possession of her servers, she even signed the following statement under oath: "I have directed that all my emails on clintonemail.com in my custody that were or potentially were federal records be provided to the Department of State, and on information and belief, this has been done."
However, we know that Clinton didn't turn over all her work-related emails, because on at least three separate occasions since she turned over her 30,000 emails, more have turned up. The State Department permanently archived far less than one percent of all emails during Clinton's time as secretary of state, so Clinton probably figured she didn't have to worry too much about other copies of her emails showing up.
But senders also keep copies of email messages. In September 2015, one month after Clinton's oath, about ten emails between Clinton and General David Petraeus were found by the Defense Department. These were from January and February 2009, the first two months of Clinton's time as secretary of state, despite the fact that she firmly claimed that she didn't start using her email account until March 18, 2009.
Additionally, when Clinton confidant Sid Blumenthal testified before the House Benghazi Committee in June 2015, he brought 60 Libya-related emails between himself and Clinton that the committee didn't have already. He probably felt obliged to turn them over because he believed they were known after a hacker named Guccifer broke into his email account in 2013 and took screenshots of his inbox as well as individual emails. The State Department found that all of nine and parts of six emails handed over by Blumenthal were missing from the 30,000 emails Clinton had turned over. The New York Times reported two months later, "The Clinton campaign has not explained the discrepancy." It is probable there are more emails between Clinton and Blumenthal still to see the light of day, since Blumenthal was obliged to turn over the only Libya-related ones to the House Benghazi Committee.
In late March 2016, in response to a Freedom of Information Act lawsuit, the State Department turned over two more Clinton work-related emails that were not in the 30,000 emails Clinton had turned over already. This shows that The State Department has more Clinton emails that it won't turn over unless lawsuits force them to. That lawsuit had a very specific target of emails relating to Clinton's discussions of her iPhone or BlackBerry use. No doubt, a State Department search for all work-related Clinton emails would turn up many more, even though the department probably archived only a small percentage of all her emails.
Recall the Bloomberg News report that said FBI agents were sorting all of Clinton's deleted emails into the work-related ones and the genuinely personal ones. That suggests there's a significant percentage of work-related ones and not just a few stragglers. Consider that when experts comment on the chances of Clinton being indicted or not, they're only considering the known released Clinton emails. What if the more damning material was in the deleted emails?
Imagine if you were the target of an FBI investigation and you realized after the fact that you had screwed up and discussed highly classified information in unsecure emails. Wouldn't you be tempted to delete the worst emails if you thought you could permanently get rid of them?
In just the week since I wrote that, more Clinton emails have come out that in my opinion indicate thousands of emails were improperly deleted. There hasn't been any good reporting on this yet, but you can see the emails here:
http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/jw-v-state-6th-production-huma-emails-00684/
http://www.judicialwatch.org/document-archive/jw-v-state-5th-production-huma-emails-00684-3/
If you check the emails in those links to or from Clinton against the State Department database of all of Clinton's released emails, you'll see a majority of them are not in that database. In five cases, the emails are actually replies to emails that ARE in the database. For instance, Huma Abedin sent Clinton an email, which is in the database, and then Clinton sent back a reply (such as "please print"
Clinton has described in the press the process through which the emails were selected, and a look through those above links show that process wasn't followed. For instance, all her emails to and from Abedin should have been flagged early on as work emails by virtue of the fact they were with Abedin, her deputy chief of staff (unless they were of a personal nature, which you can see from the links above they were not, except maybe in one or two cases).
So yeah, there should be lots of questions here! I would think someone or some people would be in danger of obstuction of justice and destruction of evidence changes, though one might argue just who is responsible for how much of the problem. It would be outrageous if the whole email deletion problem is waved away due to attorney-client privilege. Imagine if you shot someone with a gun and then you asked your friend who is a lawyer to dispose of the gun, and then the lawyer did. Would investigators not be allowed to ask about that due to attorney-client privilege?! That can't possibly be, can it?
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Yeah this explanation makes no sense. Cheryl Mills is an advisor and confidant, not counsel.
JonLeibowitz
May 2016
#16
The part I left out is irrelevant to the question of whether; it is why I left it out.
JonLeibowitz
May 2016
#92
So you keep saying, on the basis of zero evidence -- and as contradicted by the WA Post.
pnwmom
May 2016
#112
Wrong. The FBI wanted to talk about the private server, and THAT was set up in 2008
pnwmom
May 2016
#198
She was not Hill's counsel, she worked for her as an employee of the State Dept.
cui bono
May 2016
#179
She was both her personal attorney and worked for the State Dept. as a manager.
pnwmom
May 2016
#180
Well isn't that convenient. I guess they saw this coming and knew they were doing something wrong.
cui bono
May 2016
#181
The WA Post article says that after Cheryl cited attorney-client privilege, those questions
pnwmom
May 2016
#183
That's perfectly normal behavior in a legal interview. She and her attorney stepped out of the room
pnwmom
May 2016
#186
I guess conflict of interest got thrown out by Hillary when she worked in the State Dept.
cui bono
May 2016
#288
The private server was set-up in 2008 so any advice about the set-up would be covered.
pnwmom
May 2016
#294
Well that is a good thing. But that doesn't cover the usage of it when it was up and running.
cui bono
May 2016
#318
She didn't take on Mills "again." Mills was involved in the events under discussion,
pnwmom
May 2016
#319
"Again" meaning as her attorney. Or are you stating that she was Hillary's attorney while a govt
cui bono
May 2016
#321
She was her private attorney during the period when the private server was set up, when the decision
pnwmom
May 2016
#323
It appears you've managed to miss the dozen or so posts explaining why there is no conflict
onenote
May 2016
#298
Yes, and she is answering questions about the time when she was a govt employee
cui bono
May 2016
#310
So you believe that she should not speak about anything that happened during her time as a govt
cui bono
May 2016
#317
What's significant isn't whether her conversation w/HRC was privileged, it's that the FBI asked her
leveymg
May 2016
#221
No, that's not significant. Mills was doing her job as an attorney, the job she was sworn to do,
pnwmom
May 2016
#223
This incident points out one thing: HRC doesn't want the FBI to go there. The FBI does. She lost,
leveymg
May 2016
#282
No conclusion can be drawn from the fact that the attorney asserted attorney-client
pnwmom
May 2016
#291
It is so sad to see how folks are throwing important protections afforded to those being questioned
onenote
May 2016
#303
Uh, yes. Kinda weird that you did not reference the WaPo story, but went with selectively
synergie
May 2016
#101
You've now had two licensed attorneys on this thread tell you you're wrong on privilege.
msanthrope
May 2016
#201
Mills invoked privilege, not Hillary. And when she did that Mills was doing the job
pnwmom
May 2016
#225
Exactly. She talked to her client and her client didn't want her to go there. Who is her client?
leveymg
May 2016
#228
I have shown that Mills had a legal obligation to protect attorney-client privilege.
pnwmom
May 2016
#243
Think again. She would have an obligation to discuss her testimony with her client before being
leveymg
May 2016
#251
The attorney had the legal obligation to inform her client about attorney client privilege,
pnwmom
May 2016
#295
The "proof" is in the WaPo article, you are not correct. You made an assertion
synergie
May 2016
#157
Why? Hillary set up the private server in 2008, before she came to State. So Mills
pnwmom
May 2016
#199
It's not when the server was purchased, it's when Hillary started using it for official DOS business
leveymg
May 2016
#224
That would be when Hillary arrived at State. And any advice Cheryl gave her in the first
pnwmom
May 2016
#227
You're missing the point. Mills discussed with HRC the NSA warnings about the Blackberry. HRC
leveymg
May 2016
#244
Thank you for showing that this would have been covered by attorney-client privilege
pnwmom
May 2016
#301
Thank you for making my basic point: the FBI is investigating HRC and her attorneys for setting up
leveymg
May 2016
#311
Did anyone other than you suggest they were. The sources asserted that there were
synergie
May 2016
#156
I was reading a Politico article from this past September and realized I was wrong
JonLeibowitz
May 2016
#133
Yep. It seems that they knew they were doing something very wrong and put things in place to try to
cui bono
May 2016
#187
I tend to agree; Isn't this what the Mafia does -- they hire a lawyer as a confidant/advisor
JonLeibowitz
May 2016
#189
They're all lawyers. This tactic is as old as Washington, and it is routinely pierced
leveymg
May 2016
#226
She was her attorney. Then she wasn't (when she was Chief of Staff) and now she is again
onenote
May 2016
#267
Of course it does. When these requests were made neither of them was working at the
pnwmom
May 2016
#172
Precisely why Hillary instructed her not to talk to the FBI about this subject. Silence is damning.
leveymg
May 2016
#230
She didn't. Cheryl Mills, Hillary's attorney, had an obligation to the legal profession
pnwmom
May 2016
#238
Wrong again. If she were a good att'y and there was no reason to withhold info, she would have her
leveymg
May 2016
#246
There is nothing about being a "good attorney" that would suggest she "should have her client
pnwmom
May 2016
#248
Mills had a dual role as Chief of Staff. Part of that is political and part is legal. Where there
leveymg
May 2016
#258
Her role now is as a legal advisor. She has no obligation to do anything but represent her client
pnwmom
May 2016
#261
No. No conclusion of guilt can be drawn from the fact of invoking attorney-client privilege
pnwmom
May 2016
#271
This was a subject that Hillary, Mills, and her attorney tried to make off-limits
leveymg
May 2016
#278
They had a pre-agreement, and it was the attorney's job to make them stick to it. n/t
pnwmom
May 2016
#292
It was a bad move by Mills because it focused the public's attention on the role of HRC's lawyers in
leveymg
May 2016
#312
Not a bad move, despite all your speculation and fond hopes. And none of the emails contained
pnwmom
May 2016
#322
You think that drawing attention to Clinton's lawyers involvement was a good move by Mills?
leveymg
May 2016
#325
"foreign government information" doesn't mean it should have been classified at the time.
pnwmom
May 2016
#326
A strict definition of "foreign government information" would mean that the State Department --
pnwmom
May 2016
#332
That is precisely why the State Dept went through each and every email on a case-by-case basis
leveymg
May 2016
#333
"Retroactive classification" is a campaign talking point, not a legal defense.
leveymg
May 2016
#335
She had the authority to decide whether any state department document was classified or not.
pnwmom
May 2016
#336
See Reply 176. Also, a WAPO writer is not the be all and end all of legal issues.
merrily
May 2016
#177
Mills is an attorney herself and offered legal advice. Clinton could have more than one attorney.
pnwmom
May 2016
#22
This is what the original article in the WAPost says. They left it out in the Hill's
pnwmom
May 2016
#59
I know it's hard but you could try reading. The answer to your question's in the WA Post article.
pnwmom
May 2016
#83
As it turns out, the private server was set up in 2008, for Hillary's campaign -- when Cheryl Mills
pnwmom
May 2016
#194
They need to hide something or there would be no claim of privilege as to the emails.
merrily
May 2016
#176
And there you have it: those being questioned by law enforcement should have no rights
onenote
May 2016
#239
Not at all what I said. Imputing hate to me says more about you than it does me. nt
merrily
May 2016
#273
This is what you claimed* I said: "those being questioned by law enforcement should have no rights"
merrily
May 2016
#275
There's Hillary's mission right there. She didn't want her lawyer to talk about this very topic.
leveymg
May 2016
#233
Cheryl and her lawyer invoked the privilege, not Hillary, as it is the lawyer's JOB TO DO,
pnwmom
May 2016
#235
But, by invoking privilege she's carrying out her client's instructions not to talk about this.
leveymg
May 2016
#240
There is no such legal conclusion to be drawn. Mills has an obligation to protect attorney-client
pnwmom
May 2016
#242
If what she knew was exculpatory, she is free to discuss it. But, HRC doesn't want Mills to talk
leveymg
May 2016
#247
When you don't have the law or the facts on your side, go ad hominem. You've got nothing else left
leveymg
May 2016
#254
No. It merely showed that she wanted to end the interview as expeditiously as possible.
pnwmom
May 2016
#260
It turns out most of this fuss is because people didn't bother to check the most basic facts.
pnwmom
May 2016
#211
there is little comparison between corporate counsel matters (as you reference above)
grasswire
May 2016
#137
Um, wrong. If you pm me for legal advice knowing I am an attorney....privilege attaches.
msanthrope
May 2016
#142
Yes -- the fact that she consulted her lawyer during an important FBI interview
pnwmom
May 2016
#166
Hillary had the private server set up during her 2008 campaign, so Cheryl Mills was only
pnwmom
May 2016
#188
She was her attorney when HRC operated the server to conduct official State Dept business. In her
leveymg
May 2016
#237
We don't know what they discussed, but any legal advice to Hillary before May 2009, when State
pnwmom
May 2016
#241
Yes, we do. Mills had an obligation to discuss with her client what she could and couldn't discuss
leveymg
May 2016
#256
She had NO legal obligation to advise Hillary to release her from attorney-client privilege,
pnwmom
May 2016
#263
That's right. HRC and Mills calculated the legal damage would exceed the political. What does
leveymg
May 2016
#265
No, Mills wasn't working for the US when the private server was set up -- in 2008,
pnwmom
May 2016
#203
The fact remains that any questions directed to Cheryl about matters she worked on for Hillary
pnwmom
May 2016
#213
Of course it applied. She had been Hillary's personal attorney for decades. Legal advice
pnwmom
May 2016
#220
No, I think these questions were referencing, in particular, the CREW FOIA request in 2012
Yo_Mama
May 2016
#161
She did have counsel at that point -- including Cheryl. Cheryl has been her personal attorney
pnwmom
May 2016
#297
The WA Post story says there was, and the FBI agreed to keep certain areas off limits
pnwmom
May 2016
#60
As I understand it, people of SoS Clinton's 'pay grade' are supposed to KNOW what is classifiable.
Peace Patriot
May 2016
#116
I guess this puts to rest the lie that Hillary is Not under investigation by the FBI. NT
fasttense
May 2016
#245
So we know that her Chief of staff got interviewed and that she did not like the line of questioning
thereismore
May 2016
#4
Because there was never more we don't know and what we know is there was never anything.
Fla Dem
May 2016
#21
It isn't. Mills was Hillary's personal attorney in 2008, when the private server was set up.
pnwmom
May 2016
#205
I'm glad I'm not the only person who read that line. Seems like much ado about nothing.
LonePirate
May 2016
#28
Indeed she was. I'm still amazed by all the revolutionaries giving a wide berth to law & order types
LonePirate
May 2016
#34
Truth should trump all when aspiring to the highest office in the land.
PoliticalMalcontent
May 2016
#11
No pun intended. I'm a user of english and that was the most apt word.
PoliticalMalcontent
May 2016
#33
Hear Hear. I'm a fan of Obama. I'd like to truly continue his legacy.
PoliticalMalcontent
May 2016
#121
I thought that was weird that "investigators would agree to limit the scope of the questioning."
antigop
May 2016
#14
independent progressive socialist democratic socialist and back to independent
misterhighwasted
May 2016
#146
Also, the "walk out" characterization is somewhat distorted, since they returned to the
still_one
May 2016
#178
So what? She wanted to ask her lawyer a question privately, which is her right. n/t
pnwmom
May 2016
#18
Mills left the room to speak privately with HER lawyer, to which is her right. n/t
pnwmom
May 2016
#55
She wasn't hired on as Chief of Staff till May 2009, so any advice she gave before then
pnwmom
May 2016
#289
No, the argument of someone who believe in civil rights and donates to the ACLU.
pnwmom
May 2016
#309
Thanks for identifying that, Paul. What vexed her was the issue of why emails were deleted
leveymg
May 2016
#90
Remember how many threads we saw when Bernie allegedly walked out of an interview with a local
merrily
May 2016
#97
There is a portion of that link that you "forgot" to include, I've supplied it for you.
synergie
May 2016
#98
Just found something that may pertain to this particular e-mail issue.
passiveporcupine
May 2016
#127
With the way things are going I don't think Hillary or Bernie are gonna beat Trump.
WhoWoodaKnew
May 2016
#150
Hillary set up the private server in her home during her 2008 campaign. So any legal advice
pnwmom
May 2016
#191
At least 2 attorneys on this thread have schooled you on privilege. Are you going to admit your
msanthrope
May 2016
#202