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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
29. The actual constitution made the miltia federal.
Tue Jun 14, 2016, 06:56 PM
Jun 2016

Under the US Constitution the Militia is to be organised by Congress. In the radification process, the biggest attack on the then proposed Constitution was what would happen if Congress failed to organise the Militia. The defense was the Militia existed independent of any government for it was the people acting together and thus could never be abolished. This was NOT good enough for most people of the US so it was understood (via state ratification conventions) that a Bill of Rights wound be passed with the first Congress and the issue of the militia would be addressed.

Given that background the Bill of Rights were passed. The Second Amendment clearly was to address the issue of a Congressional failure to organise the Militia or any part of the Militia. This purpose is clear and no one disputes it.

The debate is does the Second reserves to the states the right to organise the militia (when the Federal Government does not) within that state's borders OR is the right to to bear arms reserves the right to form up the Militia to the people themselves Independent of the States and the Federal Government? You can NOT form up the Militia without weapons, thus access to weapons by whoever can form the Militia was clearly the intent of the Second Amendment.

Notice the Second Amendment does NOT prevent or interferes with how the Federal Government forms up the Militia (nor requires the Federal Government to do so). The Second Amendment is clearly a reserve of power clause to either the States or the people themselves.

As to the recent Supreme Court rulings, Scalia actually avoids discussing the Militia in his opinion but instead concentrated on the right to self defense, a topic not even mentioned either in the Second Amendment itself nor on the debates on ratification of the US Constitution or the Bill of Rights. Scalia wanted to say it was unconstitutional for states to forbid ownership of pistols, but by doing so Scalia left open the right to ban assault weapons. I think that is wrong, under the clear language of the Second Amendment, pistols can be banned for they are at best marginal militia weapons for it is the militia the Second Amendment was to protect not the right to self defense.

Just a comment why the Second Amendment exists, it is NOT to protect the right of the Federal Government to have an army but to protect the Militia.

By the way the US Constitution does BAN States from having "TROOPS" without Congressional permission, but permit the States to have militia. Thus the states do NOT have the inherent right to form any army, that right is reserved to the Federal Government alone.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

yeah, who cares about the Bill of rights? Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #1
What about expanded background checks? Any problem with that? TomCADem Jun 2016 #2
Opposition to this proposal has very little to do with the Second Amendment TeddyR Jun 2016 #6
Right there. +10000 Indydem Jun 2016 #37
Correct MosheFeingold Jun 2016 #62
Uh...Under reagan, there were no background checks at all, federally... beevul Jun 2016 #61
According to Justice Warren Burger iandhr Jun 2016 #3
YOu see to have completey dodged the question Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #4
The Supreme Court TeddyR Jun 2016 #7
The fact that not everyone agrees that the constitution guarantee the right of gun ownership... iandhr Jun 2016 #8
The Dem party platform TeddyR Jun 2016 #11
Not Found askeptic Jun 2016 #14
When does your militia train? nt Gore1FL Jun 2016 #33
If the arms that existed when the 2nd was written were all there is, no problem. greyl Jun 2016 #35
Maybe you should brush up on military history. Indydem Jun 2016 #38
No, the problem is you or the NRA wouldn't settle for those. greyl Jun 2016 #39
Why do governments need an amendment to form an army? krispos42 Jun 2016 #12
The actual constitution made the miltia federal. happyslug Jun 2016 #29
Do you mean Crepuscular Jun 2016 #19
Other quotes from the keen judicial mind of that esteemed jurist... Ikonoklast Jun 2016 #63
'Even one unpurchased gun is too high a price to save one life.' - Wayne LaPierre onehandle Jun 2016 #9
Thank you. CanadaexPat Jun 2016 #13
Yes, because all of that is EXACTLY THE SAME THING as keeping assault weapons 6000eliot Jun 2016 #15
There is no such thing as an "assault weapon". Odin2005 Jun 2016 #27
How about Murdering Tool? itsrobert Jun 2016 #31
OK, lets use "big fucking guns that can kill a lot of people quickly" instead of "assault." nt Gore1FL Jun 2016 #34
We had a ban for 10 years that president Clinton signed the ABW yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #41
It didn't go far enough Gore1FL Jun 2016 #44
Didn't go far enough? yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #45
Not long enough, apparently. they were still in circulation Gore1FL Jun 2016 #46
What's your point? MisterFred Jun 2016 #56
Oh brother. greyl Jun 2016 #36
I'm not sure you're getting the point. MisterFred Jun 2016 #51
Who is suggesting such a thing? Have you heard of a slippery slope fallacy? 6000eliot Jun 2016 #53
No slippery slope at all. MisterFred Jun 2016 #54
What. Ever. 6000eliot Jun 2016 #59
*Shrug* You're free to ignore the fifth amendment. MisterFred Jun 2016 #60
Do you think that allowing people suspected of being or associating with terrorists karynnj Jun 2016 #21
The FBI said the AWB didn't work and was mostly useless. Ikonoklast Jun 2016 #30
Not to mention columbine happened during the ban yeoman6987 Jun 2016 #42
Is this a dupe? Cause you posted the same thing upthread. Kingofalldems Jun 2016 #43
They are clearly using this to bring attention to the gun issue which has lain dormant cstanleytech Jun 2016 #32
Exactly! JohninPA Jun 2016 #40
Until the No Fly List Is Fixed, It Shouldn’t Be Used to Restrict People’s Freedoms - ACLU askeptic Jun 2016 #5
Yes and yes. Thank you, ACLU. nt MisterFred Jun 2016 #55
Don't worry.... penndragon69 Jun 2016 #10
Good Travis_0004 Jun 2016 #28
I don't like it when the humbled_opinion Jun 2016 #16
Supporting the Constitution is not just for Libertarians askeptic Jun 2016 #17
I have never been a Libertarian, I hate Libertarians. Odin2005 Jun 2016 #26
good luck democrats heaven05 Jun 2016 #18
So much for due process Lurks Often Jun 2016 #20
Maybe at some point in the investigation if it looks like someting is there, christx30 Jun 2016 #22
No Lurks Often Jun 2016 #23
I reconize it. I know due process is important, christx30 Jun 2016 #24
I thought we Dems were against the No-Fly List as an attack on our civil liberties? Odin2005 Jun 2016 #25
even if this were to pass RussBLib Jun 2016 #47
There is a reason why even tiny steps Elmergantry Jun 2016 #50
The voters need to follow these bills closely and determine who votes NAY on them next week. rladdi Jun 2016 #48
There are actual good reasons to vote NAY on this. MisterFred Jun 2016 #52
American voters demand a vote on banning the assault weapons next week in the Senate too. Then in rladdi Jun 2016 #49
That we even still have to debate this just says it all doesn't it. forest444 Jun 2016 #57
It's about time ronaldd32 Jun 2016 #58
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