Obama Asserts Executive Privilege On Fast And Furious Documents

[Littlewon]

145. More in a bit - but an interim question ...

[Congress can do their own investigation, using their own staffers, their own resources, their own interviews, their own bloody effort, if they'd like. No one is stopping them. ]

No one is stopping them

I may be taking this out of context, but MADem - No one is stopping them ???

[using ... there own resources]

? The argument from the right, is going to be 'The oversights resources consist of 'anything they can legally get their hands on.' (Dangling participle)

intelligent people on all sides of this disagree whether
1. Congress has a Constitutional argument for demanding the the docs.
2. Obama has a Constitutional argument for covering the docs under EP.

[You're repeating RW themes. ]

You may claim that I'm repeating 'certain facts' ... but we agreed that reason and logic is the coin of the realm. You can call those facts 'selective' - which is why I will review the EC's statements and the press release.

But what I repeated were
Facts + Questions. I made no accusations.

To call that an 'RW theme' is to engage in name-calling. Again - are the facts I presented selective? Perhaps. So I will review. But that doesn't change that they are 'facts.'

For the moment, am I correct to paraphrase that you are responding with the idea that what Holder/administration is communicating is 'Enough is Enough - we're drawing a line, not covering anything up?'

Meanwhile - I will review a few things. And in the meantime - if you want to challenge any of the facts either in my last note or the whole thing in general, or add more - please do. And remember - I'm not concerned with Issa's motives.

I've tried to establish that the motives of the investigation - I'm granting you everything you want there. But it's also true that if I get a warrant to search your home for drugs, and I happen to be a cop who hates you for breaking up with me two years ago in a bitter divorce, and I go in and find stolen property:
1. My motives are irrelevant as long as I obtained the warrant legally. If I find drugs - you're still guilty of possessing drugs.
2. That I found stolen property, and no drugs, does not make the stolen property inadmissible evidence in a theft prosecution.

I'm trying to remove the emotional element here. I don't care how much of an ahole Issa is, or how kooky the RW is. My only question is "Given the facts at hand - what is likely to happen, will it happen legally, and will whatever happens legally be based on facts in evidence'.

This whole discussion - right here - and in the US - is only properly had around facts in evidence. The only value of looking at people's motives is to help guide where we look for facts. If Issa is on a witch hunt, then we must hold a closer magnifying glass to the evidence he presents. But even if we PROVE it's a witch hunt - still any evidence, facts, irrefutable facts, such as I presented, remain facts. And facts are what will ultimately take Holder/President down, or leave them standing. Our emotions will not take them down or leave them standing. Nor will our accusations.

So I will go try to answer your question about DOJ press release and EC. I'm asking (actually I asked in the prior post) you to answer a few of mine.

In short: how can you explain/reconcile some of the facts about the case? Forget Holder, forget Issa. Address the facts. A gun tracking operation with no gun tracking. is that ODD? [ ]YES [ ]NO

I'm anticipating you are going to take issue with something other than that. I am asking you to address the facts I presented. Facts are neither partisan nor good are bad. They are cold hard things that exist in the physical universe. If that is not grounds for the discussion, then there exist nowhere in the universe any standard upon which to discuss anything requiring through and examination. I promise to address any fact you present/ask me about. (A presser or a statement is not really a fact - but I will review/take what facts are contained there-in)

Thanks - LW