Latest Breaking News

ilikeitthatway

(143 posts)

82. ABC News: Baby Dies of Herpes in Ritual Circumcision By Orthodox Jews

Thu Jun 28, 2012, 05:29 PM

Jun 2012

This is what religious folklore gets ya:

New York City is investigating the death last September of a baby who contracted herpes after a "ritual circumcision with oral suction," in an ultra-Orthodox Jewish ceremony known in Hebrew as metzitzah b'peh.

In a practice that takes place during a ceremony known as the bris, a circumcision practitioner, or mohel, removes the foreskin from the baby's penis, and with his mouth sucks the blood from the incision to cleanse the wound.

The 5,000-year-old religious practice is seen primarily in ultra-Orthodox and some orthodox communities and has caused an alarm among city health officials. In 2003 and 2004, three babies, including a set of twins, were infected with Type 1 herpes; the cases were linked to circumcision, and one boy died.

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/baby-dies-herpes-virus-ritual-circumcision-nyc-orthodox/story?id=15888618

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

234 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Circumcision is grievous bodily harm, German judges rule [View all] JackRiddler Jun 2012 OP

This ruling came out on Monday Mosby Jun 2012 #1

It is being covered in the English-language press now. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #3

BBC News published this on Tuesday - its not LBN dipsydoodle Jun 2012 #77

I'm guessing the judges were were Aryan and Christian? aquart Jun 2012 #55

their foreskins? yurbud Jun 2012 #70

LOL Boxcar Willie Jun 2012 #78

An even nastier thought occurred to me Warpy Jul 2012 #229

Uh oh! RevStPatrick Jun 2012 #2

It's not a binding decision, unfortunately. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #4

Post removed Post removed Jun 2012 #22

I'm calling my own parents idiots for having fallen for the propaganda of 1965. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #25

+1000 +++ n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #28

So are all Jews and Muslims idiots? Mosby Jun 2012 #39

Certainly not. What a loaded question! JackRiddler Jun 2012 #41

All Jewish males are required to be circumcised Mosby Jun 2012 #49

No, they're not. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #50

The thing about "widespread belief" is that another word for it is RELIGION. aquart Jun 2012 #53

Would you like to excommunicate my friends who didn't circumcise? JackRiddler Jun 2012 #59

So are the champions... awoke_in_2003 Jun 2012 #91

Is this coming from the itty bitty clitty committee? Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #93

OK, almost all. Mosby Jun 2012 #58

Okay fine. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #61

Did you know that the founder of modern Zionism, Theodor Herzl didn't circumcise his son? Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #94

You are absolutely incorrect. COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #64

except those who decide not to be reorg Jun 2012 #52

Check out this meaningless distinction. go west young man Jun 2012 #63

I heard about that, tragic Mosby Jun 2012 #66

Interesting recent article from Haaretz. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #92

Just because a religion says it's good doesn't make it so 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #157

The bullshit is thick here HankyDub Jun 2012 #76

So you're OK Boxcar Willie Jun 2012 #79

Shame on you for this diversion into propaganda. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #83

50% of your penile skin is/was foreskin? boppers Jun 2012 #100

TMI, but it's at least that much on my sons. And their equipment is pretty standard. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #106

No, it's anatomy. Not just mine. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #115

It's because it's two separate layers with a fold over. Sirveri Jun 2012 #116

Here is an interesting comparison with female circumcision. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #99

+1! for your pre-emptive defense. snot Jun 2012 #74

Saw this yesterday on DU. Not LBN leveymg Jun 2012 #5

Would be nice to be able to feel all those extra nerve endings. RitchieRich Jun 2012 #6

Little different, female circumcision is akin to having the head of penis cut off, not Lionessa Jun 2012 #8

you are also describing only the most extreme RitchieRich Jun 2012 #24

There is a difference between a piece of skin, and removing a "chunk" of a man. Lionessa Jun 2012 #37

FGM covers a whole spectrum of procedures waddirum Jun 2012 #65

I've never heard any outrage about the second type of female surgery, Lionessa Jun 2012 #67

this is the crux of the whole issue waddirum Jun 2012 #73

It's illegal to do it to a minor in this country. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #104

Except for the types that do involve cutting off just a whisp of skin. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #103

There's no need for false dichotomies. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #13

That's too bad. I'm atheist, always have been and had my son done for med reasons, Lionessa Jun 2012 #7

I must respectfully disagree.... Swede Atlanta Jun 2012 #9

When the only man I know to have it done later, recommends doing at birth, Lionessa Jun 2012 #15

You obviously have strong personal views on this... Swede Atlanta Jun 2012 #16

As you or perhaps someone pointed out below in reverse, Lionessa Jun 2012 #18

As to the female circumcison remark, Lionessa Jun 2012 #19

You're the one who introduced "that shit comparison." JackRiddler Jun 2012 #20

I Agree With You JackRiddler pmorlan1 Jun 2012 #154

A comparable surgery in a female infant would be hymenotomy Warpy Jul 2012 #228

Actually, it would be removal of the prepuce, just as with the male. Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #232

I have just the opposite story for you. go west young man Jun 2012 #21

My brother in law not impoverishd and knowing my ex-mother-in-law, there would be Lionessa Jun 2012 #38

It was most likely that fastidiousness that caused the problems. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #109

Agreed. My son is a young preschooler and has no issues with being uncirc'd FedUpWithIt All Jun 2012 #122

Yep. Mine are 3 1/2 (twins). Never had it pulled back, never any issues. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #129

Imagine if a guy like me, who is uncircumcised, go west young man Jun 2012 #32

Experience is not ridiculous either way, it's just different. Lionessa Jun 2012 #40

I'm gonna call bullshit on ya for a couple of reasons. go west young man Jun 2012 #56

Point by point. Lionessa Jun 2012 #62

Now my refutation of you refutation. go west young man Jun 2012 #69

Your description sounds alot like the labia minora. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #108

200 men and you've been with 3 uncirc'd and this makes you an expert? FedUpWithIt All Jun 2012 #123

0-6 vote to Leave It, btw... SidDithers Jun 2012 #124

And i don't suppose you're circ'd FedUpWithIt All Jun 2012 #127

Yes, it used to be a gruesome, grueling rite of passage manhood ritual. aquart Jun 2012 #51

A 'little piece of skin' with more nerve endings than your fingers. AtheistCrusader Jun 2012 #10

A little more info about what the foreskin does. go west young man Jun 2012 #26

Yah, it is from politically aggressive atheism. harun Jun 2012 #27

Parents don't have that choice in Germany, the court found reorg Jun 2012 #30

Decision is non-binding. Try to keep up. harun Jun 2012 #35

Huh? reorg Jun 2012 #44

Post removed Post removed Jun 2012 #80

Should "the family" decide collectively about abortion, as well? closeupready Jun 2012 #96

Babies can't get pregnant, so that analogy doesn't work. Lionessa Jun 2012 #97

But since the surgery is stricly optional for 99% of men, however, closeupready Jun 2012 #101

That was our reasoning as well - TBF Jul 2012 #182

Awesome. I hope this spreads. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #11

And somehow I don't feel grievously bodily-ly injured. Iggo Jun 2012 #12

So you should have had the right to cut off your own when you were an adult. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #14

Amazingly, not every court decision is about you. closeupready Jun 2012 #46

I did not know this was an issue until roody Jun 2012 #17

I was pleasantly surprised reorg Jun 2012 #23

It's debatable if the Oil Age has even progressed from the Stone Age, just say'n. harun Jun 2012 #29

it may depend on where you live n/t reorg Jun 2012 #33

Cherry Picking RitchieRich Jun 2012 #31

Everybody has the right to be circumcised reorg Jun 2012 #34

Except in Texas. n/t Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #54

You can beat your children in Texas? n/t reorg Jun 2012 #57

Crap, can't find it and didn't comment or rec. Anyway saw it this morning, Egalitarian Thug Jun 2012 #68

found it, very depressing indeed reorg Jun 2012 #85

Yeah, funny how that works on this board, isn't it. closeupready Jun 2012 #47

I agree with the court's decision Bohunk68 Jun 2012 #36

Like a bad (or really good?) SNL skit RitchieRich Jun 2012 #43

But this is also a hygiene issue. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #42

The court found that it is not a hygiene issue reorg Jun 2012 #45

No "necessity". boppers Jun 2012 #102

it's neither a necessity nor an improvement reorg Jun 2012 #111

Which all occur at higher rates in the circumcised U.S. than in intact Europe. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #114

AIDS rates are about the same in both the US and Europe. happyslug Jun 2012 #121

What has any of this to do with the discussion? reorg Jun 2012 #130

I was responding to the comment aboujt AIDS inflection rates happyslug Jun 2012 #156

Hm? boppers Jun 2012 #137

Maybe Americans fuck more recklessly and more frequently without condoms. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #140

It's not a government's job to judge that. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #48

It is up to parents consulting with their doctor and family JDPriestly Jun 2012 #132

It is up to sovereign individuals to decide what body modifications they want. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #139

Children especially babies, are not sovereign individuals. They depend on their JDPriestly Jul 2012 #212

Parents are guardians and caretakers. Not owners. Sirveri Jul 2012 #215

Yes, that's the point! They aren't sovereign individuals. JackRiddler Jul 2012 #216

The hygiene issue was early last century. go west young man Jun 2012 #60

As long as there are no STD's, sure. boppers Jun 2012 #105

So do you think having foreskin puts one at greater risk of an STD? go west young man Jun 2012 #135

how come no one brings up hygiene to defend female circumcision? yurbud Jun 2012 #71

Because .... because ... well, that's different. closeupready Jun 2012 #72

Well, mathematically, it would make sense. boppers Jun 2012 #107

The answer is very evident if you compare the male and female anatomy. JDPriestly Jun 2012 #131

It's not evident to me, and I have female anatomy. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #133

Female circumcision removes the joy of sex 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #158

I have to say, why not wait 'til the kid's old enough to decide for himself, and snot Jun 2012 #75

Because then they might not make the choice that the parents want them to make. Sirveri Jun 2012 #87

Germany is moving in the right direction, circumcision is barbaric, and the foreskin is necessary ilikeitthatway Jun 2012 #81

I agree. If an older male decides to do this fine, but don't do this to a infant... midnight Jun 2012 #84

ABC News: Baby Dies of Herpes in Ritual Circumcision By Orthodox Jews ilikeitthatway Jun 2012 #82

It should be against the law to circumcise any minor child Megahurtz Jun 2012 #86

Good Fearless Jun 2012 #88

Same here!!! I agree 1,000% n/t RKP5637 Jun 2012 #151

I'm not a man, so no skin off my privates. Beacool Jun 2012 #89

As a Chinese mandarin of several centuries ago... JackRiddler Jun 2012 #90

I would say that reason she puts forward is really the reason many women advocate for circumcision. go west young man Jun 2012 #98

You're over analizing the issue. Beacool Jun 2012 #113

It is a discussion board isn't it? go west young man Jun 2012 #118

Oh, please............ Beacool Jun 2012 #112

Men treat women like meat... JackRiddler Jun 2012 #119

If a guy were to suggest that he prefers women with XYZ surgeries to make them prettier 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #159

I never said that. Beacool Jul 2012 #192

As someone anti-circumcision, I'll be honest and agree sometimes closeupready Jun 2012 #95

That would be going a little too far, wouldn't it? Beacool Jun 2012 #110

Less extreme than having every male's penis mutilated, closeupready Jun 2012 #117

Wow pmorlan1 Jun 2012 #155

It was a joke. Beacool Jul 2012 #193

Never before dating HillWilliam Jun 2012 #146

LOL, well I guess some of us have no standards. closeupready Jun 2012 #149

I beg your pardon! I have standards!! HillWilliam Jul 2012 #167

Many people enjoy other people's cosmetic surgery, especially breast augmentation. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #120

Some day it may be fashionable to add extra foreskin. Son of Gob Jun 2012 #125

That would be funny. nt ZombieHorde Jun 2012 #126

I want mine BACK!!!! Taverner Jul 2012 #210

Well, after all the German courts COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #128

Please don't feed the "persecuted jew" debate. It gets tiring. go west young man Jun 2012 #136

Not tiring to those of us who COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #142

The vast majority of male genital mutilation victims are not Jewish. JackRiddler Jun 2012 #138

True. But it directly affects any COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #143

What is "observant"? JackRiddler Jun 2012 #144

To answer your question simply, "Yes". COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #147

To check again, because this is important: JackRiddler Jun 2012 #148

I stand in awe in the presence of such COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #150

Judaism is passed maternally. Sirveri Jun 2012 #152

No one is saying that an uncircumcised male child born COLGATE4 Jun 2012 #153

So what you're saying is that it's not actually necessary to be forced upon the child. Sirveri Jun 2012 #160

"After all, they can get it done as an adult." COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #163

I believe that it is the possessor of the genitals decision. Sirveri Jul 2012 #190

The law does not agree with your premise. COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #198

It's either for medical need or it's not. If it's not then it's cosmetic. Sirveri Jul 2012 #214

That's your opinion. And you know what COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #222

They have this new thing nowadays called "anesthetic". Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #195

One of my best friends had to be COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #197

Links on the Russian adult immigrants and on neonatal pain. Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #218

The 'Russian Immigrant link' makes my COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #221

All I can say is that your "knowledge" of neonatal pain is about 30 years out of date. Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #231

There's are laws in the west telling people what they can and cannot do religiously riderinthestorm Jun 2012 #162

Laws in the U.S. restricting religious practices COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #164

What "public interest" is served by banning FGM? It's largely a private concern. riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #169

One person's "harmless" is anothers' "drastic". COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #170

Thanks for a thoughtful convo. A lovely Sunday morning treat riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #184

Thanks to you, too. It's somewhat COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #200

Right back atcha! riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #203

My point is that, at least for those for whom it is COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #220

Its protected at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if that doesn't change riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #224

Seeing as how First Amendment juridprudence has COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #234

I completely agree with your personal decision COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #226

Some forms of FGC are that severe, certainly. Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #219

Quick, change the subject! Try to make it personal! JackRiddler Jun 2012 #161

You argue but do not persuade COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #166

Same argument is being made in favor of FGM and stoning. JackRiddler Jul 2012 #171

On what do you base your assertion that COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #181

On the physical fact that it IS grievous bodily harm. JackRiddler Jul 2012 #185

This message was self-deleted by its author COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #186

Or, in other words, COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #187

If I were to put my First Amendment rights into practice reorg Jul 2012 #188

I have no idea COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #189

sorry if I didn't make myself clear enough reorg Jul 2012 #191

I'm guessing that this is part of the explanation Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #196

Your 'discipline example' is COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #199

Again, not all religious practices are guaranteed under the 1st Amendment. nt riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #201

No, but those that aren't so protected are COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #202

I mentioned a few upthead: must have face exposed for a drivers license photo, polygamy, riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #204

As I mentioned in my first reponse to you COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #205

Female genital mutilation became illegal in the US in 1997 riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #213

Because 18th Century legislators believed that COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #223

I'm going to theorize that the acceptance of infant circumcision will also erode. riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #225

No. If by some stretch of the imagination it COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #227

So then logically you must believe that girls undergoing FGM in secret is okay? riderinthestorm Jul 2012 #230

I think the analogy is fairly clear reorg Jul 2012 #233

Rights trump religion any day 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #172

Again, how do you define "observant"? JackRiddler Jun 2012 #145

Jews aren't exempt from the law because of their religion 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #168

Correct. This is the Leviticus argument. JackRiddler Jul 2012 #173

I think there was something in there about women being submissive 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #175

Wow! The depth of your understanding of COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #177

Which part did you find contentious? 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #179

How do you know if you have been circumcized? snooper2 Jun 2012 #134

It seems that this new plague may be infesting the UK as well. Crunchy Frog Jun 2012 #141

Plague? You mean the Enlightenment? JackRiddler Jul 2012 #174

I should have added this: Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #194

Yes, I see! Friends! JackRiddler Jul 2012 #206

A plague of not removing body parts 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #176

It's a barbaric practice Mosaic Jul 2012 #165

I agree. I am convinced all religions were started by people mentally ill. Taverner Jul 2012 #209

Interesting view from Jewish side.... MindMover Jul 2012 #178

What a ridiculous notion 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #180

Exactly! COLGATE4 Jul 2012 #183

Misses the point - people can always see a Mohel outside the hospital Taverner Jul 2012 #208

Kind of a lame cartoon IMO. Crunchy Frog Jul 2012 #217

Although I agree, somehow I'm nervous that it was Germany to declare this first.... Taverner Jul 2012 #207

I don't think you should be. JackRiddler Jul 2012 #211