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In reply to the discussion: California Democratic chair race angers 'Berniecrats' [View all]Gothmog
(144,005 posts)121. You are wrong
The SCOTUS could not even rule in this case if Nader had not screwed Gore. Here are some facts on this http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html
Nader-voters who spurned Democrat Al Gore to vote for Nader ended up swinging both Florida and New Hampshire to Bush in 2000. Charlie Cook, the editor of the Cook Political Report and political analyst for National Journal, called "Florida and New Hampshire" simply "the two states that Mr. Nader handed to the Bush-Cheney ticket," when Cook was writing about "The Next Nader Effect," in The New York Times on 9 March 2004. Cook said, "Mr. Nader, running as the Green Party nominee, cost Al Gore two states, Florida and New Hampshire, either of which would have given the vice president [Gore] a victory in 2000. In Florida, which George W. Bush carried by 537 votes, Mr. Nader received nearly 100,000 votes [nearly 200 times the size of Bush's Florida 'win']. In New Hampshire, which Mr. Bush won by 7,211 votes, Mr. Nader pulled in more than 22,000 [three times the size of Bush's 'win' in that state]." If either of those two states had gone instead to Gore, then Bush would have lost the 2000 election; we would never have had a U.S. President George W. Bush, and so Nader managed to turn not just one but two key toss-up states for candidate Bush, and to become the indispensable person making G.W. Bush the President of the United States -- even more indispensable, and more important to Bush's "electoral success," than were such huge Bush financial contributors as Enron Corporation's chief Ken Lay.
All polling studies that were done, for both the 2000 and the 2004 U.S. Presidential elections, indicated that Nader drained at least 2 to 5 times as many voters from the Democratic candidate as he did from the Republican Bush. (This isn't even considering throw-away Nader voters who would have stayed home and not voted if Nader had not been in the race; they didn't count in these calculations at all.) Nader's 97,488 Florida votes contained vastly more than enough to have overcome the official Jeb Bush / Katherine Harris / count, of a 537-vote Florida "victory" for G.W. Bush. In their 24 April 2006 detailed statistical analysis of the 2000 Florida vote, "Did Ralph Nader Spoil a Gore Presidency?" (available on the internet), Michael C. Herron of Dartmouth and Jeffrey B. Lewis of UCLA stated flatly, "We find that ... Nader was a spoiler for Gore." David Paul Kuhn, CBSNews.com Chief Political Writer, headlined on 27 July 2004, "Nader to Crash Dems Party?" and he wrote: "In 2000, Voter News Service exit polling showed that 47 percent of Nader's Florida supporters would have voted for Gore, and 21 percent for Mr. Bush, easily covering the margin of Gore's loss." Nationwide, Harvard's Barry C. Burden, in his 2001 paper at the American Political Science Association, "Did Ralph Nader Elect George W. Bush?" (also on the internet) presented "Table 3: Self-Reported Effects of Removing Minor Party Candidates," showing that in the VNS exit polls, 47.7% of Nader's voters said they would have voted instead for Gore, 21.9% said they would have voted instead for Bush, and 30.5% said they wouldn't have voted in the Presidential race, if Nader were had not been on the ballot. (This same table also showed that the far tinier nationwide vote for Patrick Buchanan would have split almost evenly between Bush and Gore if Buchanan hadn't been in the race: Buchanan was not a decisive factor in the outcome.) The Florida sub-sample of Nader voters was actually too small to draw such precise figures, but Herron and Lewis concluded that approximately 60% of Florida's Nader voters would have been Gore voters if the 2000 race hadn't included Nader. Clearly, Ralph Nader drew far more votes from Gore than he did from Bush, and on this account alone was an enormous Republican asset in 2000.
The SCOTUS would never had a chance if Nader had not been stupid
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Maybe they looked at how well the party's doing outside of progressive California
Plucketeer
May 2017
#11
CA is showing no signs of sliding in that direction, thanks to party leadership.
pnwmom
May 2017
#12
The Democratic Party in California is stronger than it was several years ago. No sliding going on.
George II
May 2017
#13
I don't believe I offered any critique of the leadership in California
Sen. Walter Sobchak
May 2017
#98
I will worry about the Republicans when they're credible in the assembly
Sen. Walter Sobchak
May 2017
#136
Then maybe they need to spend their time on those outside of California who obviously need their
politicaljunkie41910
May 2017
#142
I think the notion that they need to push the California Democratic Party "left" is the MOAStrawmen.
JTFrog
May 2017
#73
That faction is always angry at the "establishment", even if the "establishment" is doing great.
brush
May 2017
#183
"Berniecrats" have a Facebook page -- it says founded in 2016. They call themselves
R B Garr
May 2017
#172
ffs, they call themselves Berniecrats. They have a Facebook page and they call
R B Garr
May 2017
#144
Wow, talk about not understanding. This kind of divisiveness because someone uses
R B Garr
May 2017
#146
lol, I didn't say it was a noun. Typing a third person pronoun about Berniecrats isn't
R B Garr
May 2017
#150
This is hilarious how you've made this entire subthread about the word "them".
R B Garr
May 2017
#156
Did you even read the article?? Apparently not. Again, you don't seem familiar
R B Garr
May 2017
#159
Nice try, but you're obviously being obtuse about the posted article by trying
R B Garr
May 2017
#168
God! Drop it already. Cali is blue because Dems worked hard over years to get it there.
brush
May 2017
#186
Get one thing straight. Sanders supporters are not the only progressives. You don't own that term.
brush
May 2017
#184
Thank you. This division helps Republicans get elected. To bad the top 2 can't co-lead so our p
Sunlei
May 2017
#28
Maybe they will. Kimberly Ellis has apparently been a significant force in building a
KPN
May 2017
#35
Whatever happened to "Hey, we lost...let's work harder to push our message"
Docreed2003
May 2017
#29
How about, "woah that was a close win, we need to include their agenda or we've lost them"
Sunlei
May 2017
#47
That's not the simplistic message behind it, unfortunately. It's a very hostile
R B Garr
May 2017
#48
Its Republicans who who promote the "Maligning other Democrats" messages because it works for them.
Sunlei
May 2017
#58
How lame, but typical divisiveness. Insinuating that Democrats are not pure enough
R B Garr
May 2017
#59
Right. She did. Re: not the only one, nobody is saying that - including Kimberly Ellis ...
KPN
May 2017
#40
That's not the simplistic message behind it, unfortunately. The message is much
R B Garr
May 2017
#43
"minimize the influence of money in politics -- Is that an issue for anyone here?"
LiberalLovinLug
May 2017
#62
Really getting tired of whoever these Sanders' supporters are that when they lose
still_one
May 2017
#42
Exactly. The "message" is chaos driven and not based in reality. There is no reason
R B Garr
May 2017
#45
There was similar unhappiness expressed when Nancy Pelosi won the votes to be the
still_one
May 2017
#50
Exactly, and I forgot about those other two losses you mentioned when I calculated
R B Garr
May 2017
#60
We are on the same page on this R B, and 2018 isn't that far off, and that is critical
still_one
May 2017
#65
Why is it Sanders supporters' fault when this Hillary supporter refuses to concede and hires a...
Hassin Bin Sober
May 2017
#72
If you read my post I said whoever these Sanders supporters are. The article in the OP
still_one
May 2017
#89
I didn't read down far enough. Nina Turner is has obviously embraced the Jill Stein, Cornell West
still_one
May 2017
#106
Now THAT... is an excellent question. I often suspect that it's motivated by vanity and ego...
NurseJackie
May 2017
#125