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Igel

(37,522 posts)
22. Prosperity has many mothers.
Mon Jul 30, 2012, 01:37 PM
Jul 2012

Some people like including "black sheep" mothers. Others insist that they be excluded.

Look at Jared Diamond. He gave a lot of people a belief. He wasn't forceful enough in deriding the "all or nothing" kind of thinking that many of his readers needed.

Diamond's right. But Diamond didn't argue for everything he thought. He didn't need to. He presented what he thought missing. He's a counterpoint to a school of thought that was being developed at about the same time, but which most of Diamond's readers never were aware of. He was one hand clapping, knew he was one hand clapping, said he was one hand clapping. We saw the waving and thought the argument was about the waving because it said a civilization isn't responsible for what it has or for its collapse. We saw him waving his hand and thought he was conducting; he was focused on the sound the two hands' clapping made.

In Collapse he pointed out how important the environment was. This was also viewed as something external to civilizations, and often they are--you have a 200-year drought, that's a real stress on a civilization and it's bound to fail.

I happen to think that things like equal rights, respect for law, consideration of the common good, freedom of speech, social trust that leads to medium sized organizations and social structures, hard work, valuing education, long-term thinking, believing that effort is strongly correlated with success, rational thought and science, are all mothers of prosperity. So is environmentalism, after a certain point (but not before).

They're also all cultural traits. That was a large part of Diamond's _Collapse_. It was a cultural trait that Diamond, being who he is, could point to as being important. It was a rebuttal to those who thought he was conducting when he was trying to clap. It didn't sell as well. And again, as he was trying to slap people they again saw him waving his hands and believed he was conducting. His focus was still "clapping."

I also think that using words like "advanced" culture is like calling somebody a "bigot." It's not meant to understand or dialog, it's meant to shut down the other person and extreme offense--offendedness and offensiveness. People adapt their culture to conditions as needed; they also tend to stick with cultural traits long after they've become an economic drag on the civilization (but that's okay: viewing everything through the prism of money or the economy is *also* a cultural trait).

The Palestinian economy was soaring at one point. It was doing well, prosperity was on the increase, unemployment falling. Then it flatlined. It flatlined for cultural reasons. The intifada shut it down. Soon after that the Israelis locked down the West Bank and gave everybody the Diamondesque reason they wanted. As it is, the Pal economy needs more links to the outside. Why it should be any better than the Jordanian or Syrian economy is a mystery. They're limited not by external, Diamondesque factors, but by internal factors. This is as true now as it was in the 1920s and 1910s.

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Adelson is one creepy looking guy.....ugh. Laurian Jul 2012 #1
Separated at birth? Scootaloo Jul 2012 #3
"I am your father, Willard." - Darth Adelsen-Vader (R) Berlum Jul 2012 #10
Oh my. Best post, ever. n/t progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #18
Pasty little cretin, isn't he? hlthe2b Jul 2012 #4
Ya gotta wonder whether Willard got his THING about gambling from Adelsen Berlum Jul 2012 #13
That's because he is a very, very rich creep who would destroy democracy to save his ass from DOJ CarmanK Jul 2012 #9
Just thining the same thing. elleng Jul 2012 #20
the "power of culture" Enrique Jul 2012 #2
He should apply his keen analytical skills to the United States starroute Jul 2012 #21
Romney retroactively addresses National Party of South Africa Capt. Obvious Jul 2012 #5
Fantastic analogy! Well done! n/t ohgeewhiz Jul 2012 #14
Thank you Capt. Obvious Jul 2012 #17
Such one dimensional thinking is dangerous Stuckinthebush Jul 2012 #6
Prosperity has many mothers. Igel Jul 2012 #22
Somehow I don't think Mr. White-White-White Man has auburn hair naturally. nt valerief Jul 2012 #7
I think it's a hoot when old men dye their hair an unnatural color. Laurian Jul 2012 #11
Strom did have a natural color since he combed his hair with buttered wheat toast. R. Daneel Olivaw Jul 2012 #33
Foreign money funneled into AMERICAN ELECTIONS? CarmanK Jul 2012 #8
Ha ha, I'll bet you thought that was illegal? bemildred Jul 2012 #12
+1000. Romney seeking financial support from a foreign sovereign nation, and nobody says, WTF? BeHereNow Jul 2012 #16
God, he's only a Republican candidate and he's ohgeewhiz Jul 2012 #15
He brought his OWN donors from America for that little bus-tour-of-the-Holy-Land cash grab. progressivebydesign Jul 2012 #19
Good post: and regarding Adelson, he's ohgeewhiz Jul 2012 #25
All that money and he looks like that? xtraxritical Jul 2012 #23
That sums up Willard perfectly. Zoeisright Jul 2012 #24
I thought it was illegal for foreign nationals to donate money unless cstanleytech Jul 2012 #26
that guy looks really creepy Marrah_G Jul 2012 #27
So, Romney doesn't know what to say again???really????? Stuart G Jul 2012 #28
Willard does have lots of Neo Con advisors... Fritz67 Jul 2012 #29
I'm sort of surprised that the Jews themselves aren't pissed about this XemaSab Jul 2012 #30
Romney just told them he considers Jews to be as good as him. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #32
Sheldon Adelson looks like warmed over death in this pic. Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2012 #31
I'm Jewish and think his comment was racist, and more specifically, anti-Semitic. n/t Betsy Ross Jul 2012 #34
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