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zeemike

(18,998 posts)

165. Well pardon me but it is not the end of the story at all.

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 06:59 PM

Jul 2012

The laws against discrimination does not cover speech...so you cannot be tried under the law for what you say even if it is bigoted...and by the way I support that idea NOT because I am a bigot or I encourage it in any way...I support that right because if they can do it to him they can do it to me....History is filled with examples of the rights of people being taken away piece by piece and using moral justifications for it too....so if you can set a president of restricting a right for a moral reason you can then do it for other rights.
Free speech is either a right or it is not...and what you take away from one you take from all.

We have the freedom to be assholes if we want...and if you take the freedom to be a bigot away then how can you say you have the right to be gay?..maybe he was born a bigot, raised as a bigot and has bigoted blood in his veins...maybe he can help it any more than a gay can help being what he is?
We have totally lost the idea of live and let live...you have the right not to eat there and I would never eat there even though I am not gay...is that not enough for you?.

No I only see this as an attempt to polarize for political gain....each new outrage that comes up drives people to one side or the other and increases the anger and fear on both sides...and it usually works against us by making us give up principles of fairness and justice and plays into their meme....and then they pick a new one to divide us on.

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ACLU attorney: Blocking Chick-fil-A over gay marriage 'viewpoint discrimination' [View all] hack89 Jul 2012 OP

So... GrantDem Jul 2012 #1

Are you kidding atreides1 Jul 2012 #5

They also defended Rush Limbaugh when he was going through his painkiller addiction. JoeInNy Jul 2012 #43

Yep iamthebandfanman Jul 2012 #71

and Ollie North mahatmakanejeeves Jul 2012 #142

After the ACLU agreed with the Citizens United decision hack89 Jul 2012 #15

I know I have wordpix Jul 2012 #115

ACLU who ?? blkmusclmachine Jul 2012 #127

Yes, that's why I stopped giving money to them Joe Bacon Jul 2012 #147

Like any other issue/belief iamthebandfanman Jul 2012 #69

The hole I see in that argument are the segregated lunch counters of the 60's. Lint Head Jul 2012 #2

chick-fil-a doesn't have seating segregated on the basis of sexual orientation unblock Jul 2012 #7

I agree. Chick-fil-a can support whatever whacko stance they want .... marble falls Jul 2012 #136

exactly. we can protest. politicians can write letters and encourage them to change or keep away. unblock Jul 2012 #137

I am glad to see this reaction. Sterling Aug 2012 #173

I don't understand the comparison n/t Enrique Jul 2012 #26

uh, that's a very poor comparison. cali Jul 2012 #126

if the owner of burger king MrDiaz Jul 2012 #3

I don't feel we owe equal consideration for the enemy. nt Deep13 Jul 2012 #13

Well, that's how the Constitution works. PavePusher Jul 2012 #24

Fine, but I have no reason to defend the rights of bigots. Deep13 Jul 2012 #32

OK MrDiaz Jul 2012 #41

Geez, we don't like RepubliCONs and say so all the time, what's the difference here? xtraxritical Jul 2012 #65

Actually, in our society, you should defend their rights. PavePusher Jul 2012 #44

(always sorry to see DUers miss this point.) annabanana Jul 2012 #129

See #48. n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #54

You have EVERY reason to defend their rights. The cure for hate speech annabanana Jul 2012 #131

+1 treestar Jul 2012 #153

Yep. Defending bigots is not my problem. closeupready Aug 2012 #169

+1 :) discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #72

I know exactly what to tell her/him.... PavePusher Jul 2012 #74

That's what I thought. :) n/t discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2012 #99

Sort of like when Fox "News" discusses whether accused terrorists deserve civil rights? Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #27

Um, no. Locking people up for years on end with no trial and subjecting them to torture Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #28

The issue is whether or not bad people, or those accused of being bad, have civil & economic rights. Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #36

And I would argue that those who attempt to deny others their basic rights Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #45

I think you make a good point. Chick-fil-A is engaged in RKP5637 Jul 2012 #81

chick-fil-A is not engaged in discrimination. grok Jul 2012 #92

Not directly atreides1 Aug 2012 #176

They didn't discriminate Missycim Jul 2012 #121

I have no idea how that relates to this story. nt Deep13 Jul 2012 #34

Do bad people have rights? Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #39

Well, the rich ones do. Deep13 Jul 2012 #51

Do you understand how the Constitution works? The GOVERNMENT cannot kelly1mm Jul 2012 #33

Not my problem. Deep13 Jul 2012 #35

If you don't believe it's important to defend the rights of others, even when you disagree with them PavePusher Jul 2012 #48

OoooH! Big bad bogeyman comin' to getch'a if you don't support Chick-fil-A! Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #61

Thanks for spinning. Now, please respond to what I was actually saying. Or not... n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #62

I believe I've already answered that question many times, but what the hell? Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #67

Errr, I am not aware that the busines itself, as in each actual eating establishment... PavePusher Jul 2012 #70

As has now been mentioned several times on this thread Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #75

Now we're getting somewhere, I hadn't seen that earlier. PavePusher Jul 2012 #82

O.K., on further review, I'm not seeing what you seem to be implying. PavePusher Jul 2012 #139

Really? How many married gay couples do you see in those videos? Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #188

What other rights does he forfeit? treestar Jul 2012 #154

He's already in business Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #186

Dear Deep 13 I want to thank you for offering so many opportunities annabanana Jul 2012 #132

That's gonna leave a mark.... n/t PavePusher Jul 2012 #140

They can and do discriminate against moral views Major Nikon Jul 2012 #123

Boston and Chicago officials are only voicing opinions. Deep13 Aug 2012 #168

Something the freeps would say... liberallibral Aug 2012 #177

Hey ACLU, I love you. And kindly STFU. Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #4

huh? arely staircase Jul 2012 #6

Um yeah, actually it is Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #11

are you the government? that is who the aclu is talking about arely staircase Jul 2012 #18

As I pointed out in my example, the "government" in this case is often acting is coordination Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #20

using government powers arely staircase Jul 2012 #95

As much as I want to agree with you... primavera Jul 2012 #104

No one is shutting Chick-fil-A down Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #110

There is a difference between boycotting and banning an opponent from exercising their rights. Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #9

Did somebody say that the Chick-fil-A CEO doesn't have a legal right to express his opinion? Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #14

"Saying no to a company" because of political views is fundamentally different from saying no to... Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #17

Ah, and I guess Chick-fil-A's CEO donating millions of dollars to Christian anti-gay Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #19

Why not revoke the business licenses of all businesses whose owners donate to the Republican Party? Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #23

LOL. Sounds like a good idea to me. Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #25

So donating to a malignant organization whose members include a few dissenters "isn't enough of a... Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #31

So you've now defined the Republican Party as a malignant organization. Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #38

Perhaps our time would be better spent fighting for justice WITHOUT adopting the tactics of... Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #50

LOL. I'll tell you what Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #57

So if the local governmet was against marriage equality and a company made it very clear kelly1mm Jul 2012 #37

A CEO donating millions of dollars to anti-gay causes falls under business practices that violate Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #42

Since Heller has defined the right to a firearm as an individual civil right, should kelly1mm Jul 2012 #52

Who the fuck is Heller? Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #53

USSC case of DC v. Heller. Here is a link: kelly1mm Jul 2012 #55

Okay, gun control is kind of a broad issue, don't you think? Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #58

Assume for argument's sake that some CEO was for a total ban on all handguns. Would you then kelly1mm Jul 2012 #63

Okay, let's assume for some totally pointless sake and for no other reason than appeasing Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #66

Spin, Spin.... joeglow3 Aug 2012 #175

Lame, lame. n/t Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #189

Let me ask you this: Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #47

Yes, a pattern of violating the law in hiring (or other) business practices may be a valid reason... Faryn Balyncd Jul 2012 #64

Good enough. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #85

Deliberatly mis-representing the very first sentence of the article doesn't help your argument. PavePusher Jul 2012 #141

Are you honestly trying to tell me that donating to right wing Christian causes Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #187

So if the owner of a chicken shack openly supports gay marriage TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #149

Bravo n/t SylviaD Jul 2012 #163

Bravo Twice! Redford Jul 2012 #164

Yeah, iamthebandfanman Jul 2012 #73

Nobody's forcing them on anything Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #77

Examiner? Really? geardaddy Jul 2012 #8

But the ACLU quotes are accurate. nt hack89 Jul 2012 #12

"ACLU Defends Nazis' Right To Burn Down ACLU Headquarters" Deep13 Jul 2012 #10

Who Said FrodosPet Jul 2012 #128

Well said! Llewlladdwr Jul 2012 #156

I don't eat chicken, alright if I boycott Chick-fil-A? Downwinder Jul 2012 #16

OK so the owner is nykym Jul 2012 #21

Dear ACLU, as much as I love you 98% of the time, this is one of those times you're wrong... truebrit71 Jul 2012 #22

No they are not wrong. zeemike Jul 2012 #30

I'm not too worried about this edge. Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #78

that is the same reasoning that gave us the patriot act zeemike Jul 2012 #105

So denying a homophobic business permission to open up a store is now the same thing Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #114

Well that is what you don't understand about principal. zeemike Jul 2012 #116

I just have a different interpretation of principals than you Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #117

does this help you understand my point? zeemike Jul 2012 #119

No Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #122

That was not intended to be the exact same example. zeemike Jul 2012 #134

If you don't like being compared to Faux News, stop taking their side. n/t Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #184

Aw yes the old "you are either with us or against us" zeemike Aug 2012 #190

Fuck independent thought Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #191

Yes then I am against you zeemike Aug 2012 #192

LOL. Do me a favor, go and say that to a group of gay people that aren't even allowed to have legal Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #197

Say what? zeemike Aug 2012 #198

Protesting a chicken sandwich will do nothing Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #199

Hey it DID happen without me. zeemike Aug 2012 #200

Your idea of fairness is what's warped Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #201

Well perhaps I should just tuck my tail in and slink away from here zeemike Aug 2012 #202

hey if you want to leave, buh bye. Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #203

Well I guess you don't get sarcasm ether. zeemike Aug 2012 #206

So you're now equating a business that supports the environment with eco-terrorists? Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #207

Well your business that supports the environment zeemike Aug 2012 #208

Let's just cut to the chase Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #212

Does life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness mean nothing to you? zeemike Aug 2012 #213

So in other words, no, you can't point out any constitutional amendment Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #214

I have no illusions that I will ever convince you of anything. zeemike Aug 2012 #215

Um, yeah, you go right ahead and pat yourself on the back about Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #216

It is rare to see an independent thinker as a hero. zeemike Aug 2012 #217

Yes they are. They are an organisation that supports bigotry. truebrit71 Jul 2012 #160

Well pardon me but it is not the end of the story at all. zeemike Jul 2012 #165

Boston and Chicago have a right to grant (or not) building permits.. truebrit71 Jul 2012 #166

Well indeed they do have that right. zeemike Jul 2012 #167

What is the law that says "It is illegal to discriminate based on sex, COLGATE4 Aug 2012 #179

This one.. truebrit71 Aug 2012 #180

That's only the law in Illinois, not other states. COLGATE4 Aug 2012 #193

There is nothing you can point to that COLGATE4 Aug 2012 #194

Remember that next time Jackson MS works on banning some company for it's pro-choice message 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #158

I agree with the ACLU JoeyT Jul 2012 #29

Me too! NeverEnuff Jul 2012 #46

+1 Apparently, some people don't get the whole "Constitution thing" n/t RufusTFirefly Jul 2012 #68

Government can regulate commerce. It's in The Constitution. Look it up. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #89

Lets say a business was pro gay marriage? Travis_0004 Jul 2012 #102

Watch this and let me know what you think. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #103

I say let them expand to those states. JoeyT Jul 2012 #124

Yes, but it can't regulate speech (except within very COLGATE4 Aug 2012 #196

And many Bellerophon Jul 2012 #90

As much as I hate their bigotry, I agree with the ACLU Matariki Jul 2012 #40

What about when the CEO has a pattern of transferring his religious opinions to business practices? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #56

There are appropriate labor laws to address such issues. nt hack89 Jul 2012 #59

And there's the right of local governments to not allow them to do business there. Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #76

So a local government has the "right" to deny a license to pro-choice corporation? hack89 Jul 2012 #80

See post# 83 Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #84

governments dont have rights arely staircase Jul 2012 #101

And yet, Arcata continues to do it Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #113

No they can't treestar Jul 2012 #155

Gay people are a protected class under law Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #83

But how is expressing an opinion of marriage equality violating anyone's rights? hack89 Jul 2012 #87

Donating millions of dollars to anti-gay groups Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #88

But if they hire gay workers and serve gay customers whose rights are being violated? hack89 Jul 2012 #96

No, you don't have to do something illegal Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #108

It is a two edge sword you are swinging there hack89 Jul 2012 #109

LOL. Conservatives have been coming after my sacred oxen for years Downtown Hound Jul 2012 #112

How is it you don't get that all chains are being treated exactly the same TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #150

How is it that you don't understand that cities can zone however they want? Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #185

ACLU: defenders of Rush Limbaugh's "privacy", Citizens United, Nazi marches in Skokie bluestateguy Jul 2012 #49

What you advocate is more oppressive than those you denigrate askeptic Jul 2012 #138

OMG, that is insane Vattel Jul 2012 #60

I had this discussion with a friend of a Facebook friend... Not Me Jul 2012 #79

Indeed... n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2012 #86

Because one is based on their religion and the other is based on their ACTIONS. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #91

Hassin, you are right Not Me Jul 2012 #93

What 'practices'? randome Jul 2012 #94

Watch this and let me know if it changes your view of CF? Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2012 #98

My opnion of Chick-Fil-A is not a good one. randome Jul 2012 #106

Has there been evidence of CF discrimination against gay employees or customers? mainer Jul 2012 #120

So bigots have rights too; they are still bigots SkatmanRoth Jul 2012 #97

This isn't going to be popular, but I'm prepared for that jmowreader Jul 2012 #100

OR Every gay in town could show up every day. Buy ONE CUP OF TEA and spend hours annabanana Jul 2012 #133

On edit: WHAT wait staff? jmowreader Jul 2012 #148

No, tea is to high a profit margin. I'd bet they make more off a tea than anything. TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #151

I find it most disconcerting that there are so many people here on DU who don't believe in freedom Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #107

I'm suspecting there's bunches of annabanana Jul 2012 #130

I don't think they are intentionally trolling and even I don't agree with the ACLU 100% of the time Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #143

Yes indeed. NoGOPZone Jul 2012 #146

ACLU does the right thing again Riftaxe Jul 2012 #111

Gay marriage supporter here, but I must agree with the ACLU on this. mainer Jul 2012 #118

Community Standards guneydomuz Jul 2012 #125

Fracking, alcohol, nuclear power plants, firework makers, bars, guns and ammo, landfills, refineries part man all 86 Jul 2012 #135

They aren't talking restricting restaurants, chicken places, fried chicken shacks, sandwich shops TheKentuckian Jul 2012 #152

Those are practices or types of companies 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #159

Free speech exist specifically to protect opinions we loathe Douglas Carpenter Jul 2012 #144

100% Right cthulu2016 Jul 2012 #145

+1 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #157

I agree with the ACLU. Democrats stand for free speech n/t SylviaD Jul 2012 #161

agreed, and when it comes to boycott, has anybody ever really found one of those places ? may3rd Jul 2012 #162

That looks photoshopped 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #170

I hate it when I'm wrong. Bucky Aug 2012 #171

They, He, can say whatever the fuck he wants... and-justice-for-all Aug 2012 #172

I think the cities should let the chick fil a restaurants set up shop there and fail. alp227 Aug 2012 #174

Well what about our new Du members goclark Aug 2012 #178

Municipalities have the right to zone any way they like. Odin2005 Aug 2012 #181

So even if a company meets every legal requirement hack89 Aug 2012 #182

Thank you. A voice of reason Downtown Hound Aug 2012 #183

Not true. Overly restrictive zoning measures, COLGATE4 Aug 2012 #195

Zoning to exclude one specific business as opposed to all similar businesses would be begging... slackmaster Aug 2012 #204

What if a company meets all the requirements of the zoning laws? hack89 Aug 2012 #209

Deny them a permit, saying that they are a threat to land values. Odin2005 Aug 2012 #210

So make shit up and hope you don't lose in court? hack89 Aug 2012 #211

Change the view..... dtom67 Aug 2012 #205