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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
39. As to Streetcars, I use to live on the last Streetcar line in Pittsburgh.
Wed Aug 1, 2012, 10:57 AM
Aug 2012

Pittsburgh in 1964 had the largest Streetcar service in the US, The reason for this is the local Streetcar provider (Pittsburgh railways) had gone bankrupt in the 1930s, coming out of it when it sold off its interurban lines (that went from Pittsburgh to Washington PA, the County seats of Allegheny and Washington County PA) to the Pennsylvania Department of Highways (Now Penndot) so that the State could use about 1/4 of it for a then new (1954) four lane highway between Pittsburgh and Washington PA.

Now, the ruling elite of City of Pittsburgh had come to hate Streetcars for most of them drove cars and blamed the Streetcars for causing Traffic Jams. Thus there was a push to replace Streetcars with buses (The actual cause of the traffic jams was to many cars, but car drivers will NOT blame themselves, so it had to be the streetcars). Thus the push to get rid of streetcars was huge in the 1950s in Pittsburgh (And for similar reasons in other cities). When Allegheny County decided to take over the Pittsburgh Railway Streetcar system and establish a County Owned public transit system (Run by the Port Authority of Allegheny County, hereafter referred to by the term "PAT" which stands for Port Authority Transit) it was as part of a policy to replace streetcars with buses. This worked on all the streetcar lines EXCEPT the three interconnected lines which were part of the remains of the Pittsburgh to Washington Interurban line.

When the State took over the Interurban line, Pittsburgh Railway cut back service on that line to the Allegheny County Border. There was already talk of taking over the Streetcars by the county by the early 1950s so it was a good move. The State only wanted the old interurban line from the County Border to about half way to Washington Pa. At that half way point the old interurban cut back through a valley to Cannonsburg PA and then along Chartiers Creek to Washington PA. The State wanted to avoid Cannonsburg with its then new four lane highway. so it took the then new four lane highway directly to Washington PA over various hills to get to Washington Pa.

As to the remains of the Interurban, a new loop was built at Drake road so the Railway bridge over Drake road could be torn down (it needed to be replaced, it was over 50 years old at that time and had been built cheaply in the 1905-1910 time period). The renamed Drake Streetcar line was on its own exclusive right of way from Drake to Pittsburgh, no street running at all (When it was part of the Washington Pa interurban line, it was on its own right of way from Cannonsburg to Pittsburgh, running on the Streets of Cannonsburg, Houston and Washington PA, but on its own right of way between those small cities). When the interurban line had been built in the 1905-1910 period, this was rural Pennsylvania, but by the 1950s it was suburbia. Even today 10% of the people who work in Downtown Pittsburgh go into Pittsburgh via the three interconnected old Streetcar lines.

I bring this up for as part of the Streetcar to bus transformation proposed in the 1960s, these three lines, the 46 Drake and the 47 Library lines were on their own exclusive right of way and the related 38/42 Mt Lebanon via Beechview was mostly on its own right of way (Running on two Roads but connecting those two road on its own right of way AND on its own right of way from those roads to the right of way shared with the 46 Drake and 47 Library lines). The problem was to convert these lines from Streetcars to buses would mean moving the transit from its own right of way to the local roads, which were already subject to massive traffic jams. At the time, and even today, it is FASTER to take these streetcar lines then to drive to downtown Pittsburgh due to the fact they are on their exclusive right of way, but a right of way NOT conductive to being paved. i.e. buses would have to run with the already jammed traffic on the nearby highways. Thus converting to bus would increase the travel time by a factor of at least 2 (And probably 3, i.e a 30 minute trip would become a 90 minute trip).

Thus you could NOT replace these last three streetcar lines with buses but PAT was commited to replacing all Streetcars with buses. Busways were built in other parts of the County, but on these streetcar lines the right of way was to narrow (The right of way included a tunnel under Mt Washington, which overlooks Downtown Pittsburgh, it was paved so buses could run on it, but buses pass each other with less then six inches between the buses as there pass going opposite directions. Such narrow passages work with rail, the rail provides a rigid place for both vehicles, but buses have to be driven thus minimum distance is generally wider in tunnels for buses and cars then for rail. The tight passage is acceptable for one spot on a transit line but not for the whole transit line and thus the Federal Government permitted the tunnel to be paved and used by buses BUT would not approve such tight fit for the whole right of way).

Yes, PAT had problems getting rid of its last three streetcar lines. PAT actually adopted a policy of replacing it with an automated rubber tired elevated people mover, called "Skybus" locally. I have discussed Pittsburgh "Skybus" project before on DU2, here is where I made my comments if you want to read more on it:

http://betterment.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1130&pid=241

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?
az=show_mesg&forum=184&topic_id=5818&mesg_id=5820

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=398&topic_id=794&mesg_id=824

I did a paper (preliminary never a final draft) on the rise of Suburbs and the rise and decline of Streetcars. In the paper I mention the "Advertising" affect of Streetcars. If you ever had a class in advertising, you will find out actual ads are just PART of any advertising campaign. As to Streetcars the fact that streetcars needed overhead wires and rails were constant reminders that streetcars ran on that road (i.e Advertising streetcars ran on that road). Thus any traffic jam on that road were seen by drivers as being caused by the Streetcars if they saw no reason for the jam (Which is most cases). This concept had more to do with replacing Streetcars with buses, just to eliminate people calling the Mayor that Streetcars were causing traffic jams:

Here is that paper:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/113025

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Yeah, but how are the energy moguls gonna make money? Scuba Jul 2012 #1
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I have only one concern about solar Marrah_G Jul 2012 #2
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Nice- thank you :) Marrah_G Jul 2012 #26
It can also be stored as compressed air, water pumped to a height, in a heated or chilled solution.. DCKit Jul 2012 #11
How about just pushing it into the "grid"? xtraxritical Jul 2012 #14
With so many distributed options, you don't have to "push" anything onto the grid. DCKit Aug 2012 #38
I had no idea there were so many options! Marrah_G Jul 2012 #27
I haven't read other responses but if I may weigh in jonthebru Jul 2012 #13
Hard to imagine elsewhere in the US, but the clouds rarely cover the sun JDPriestly Jul 2012 #18
I agree- we need to get the heck away from fossil fuels Marrah_G Jul 2012 #28
These estimates are from a good source. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #17
I would love to see wind, solar and water as the primary means of power someday soon Marrah_G Jul 2012 #29
Use excess solar power to run giant outdoor fans during the day 4th law of robotics Aug 2012 #41
Problems with this report. happyslug Jul 2012 #3
every party's got to have a pooper leftyohiolib Jul 2012 #6
A carbon tax could and should help pay for the cost. n/t Uncle Joe Jul 2012 #12
China and Germany are gradually moving toward solar. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #20
The purpose of my comment was to put this report in prespective happyslug Jul 2012 #24
We will be undergoing a major restructuring of our society over the next few decades regardless of Uncle Joe Aug 2012 #45
Cost? The Doctor. Jul 2012 #4
The report clearly states costs were NOT considered. happyslug Jul 2012 #5
What did it "cost" to build railroad lines across the US? JDPriestly Jul 2012 #22
$20Trillion in round numbers One_Life_To_Give Aug 2012 #42
Hey, solar could be used to subsidize the oil companies and everyone would be happy. nt Kablooie Jul 2012 #7
The biggest problem with solar... JohnnyRingo Jul 2012 #9
Quck! Here comes Rmoney to make sure we "level the playing field" by cutting any support/credits for AllyCat Jul 2012 #10
Yes, but will solar powered cars make loud "vroom" noises? primavera Jul 2012 #15
I would point out many of the "vroomiest" cars are not "Amurikan." nt Codeine Jul 2012 #34
Second problem, electricy generation is only 16% of the energy used in the US. happyslug Jul 2012 #16
The day of the electric car will come sooner than you think. JDPriestly Jul 2012 #23
The electric car will come, but most people will replace they gas jobs with a bicycle happyslug Jul 2012 #35
Interesting ideas, of course, bicycles are not practical for many people over 65. JDPriestly Aug 2012 #37
As to Streetcars, I use to live on the last Streetcar line in Pittsburgh. happyslug Aug 2012 #39
Very interesting. I live in an area that was first developed as a suburb in the period JDPriestly Aug 2012 #44
A mere $120Trillion installed One_Life_To_Give Aug 2012 #43
Stop Building Coal Plants. Stop Licensing Nuke Plants and Go Renewable triplepoint Jul 2012 #19
Too bad it's about 30 years too late to make a difference NickB79 Jul 2012 #21
DID YOU KNOW???? DreamSmoker Jul 2012 #25
Sunpower rks306 Jul 2012 #30
This is awesome news. Dont call me Shirley Jul 2012 #32
Renewables are not a small portion of our power supply at almost 12% Sirveri Jul 2012 #33
12% of 14% is still is only 1.68% happyslug Aug 2012 #40
awesome we can stop the fracking now right? limpyhobbler Jul 2012 #36
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