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struggle4progress

(126,443 posts)
40. I suppose that's possible but it's very easy to see, from pebble pictures, that
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 01:44 PM
Aug 2017

if (a,b,c) is a Pythagorean triple then so is (n*a,n*b,n*c)

For example, if (3,4,5) is Pythagorean so is (45,60,75)

The "proof" is very simple. Start with (say) a 3 x 3 square of red pebbles and a 4 x 4 square of blue pebbles. The red and blue pebbles can be rearranged as a 5 x 5 square. Now replace every red pebble with a 15 x 15 square of orange pebbles and every blue pebble with a 15 x 15 square of green pebbles. The 3 x 3 square becomes a 45 x 45 square of orange pebbles; and the 4 x 4 square similarly becomes a 60 x 60 square of green pebbles pebbles. Any process of rearranging the red and blue pebbles into a 5 x 5 square implies a process of rearranging 15 x 15 orange squares and 15 x 15 green squares into a 75 x 75 square

The converse -- "if (n*a,n*b,n*c) is a Pythagorean triple then so is (a,b,c)" -- is likewise obvious from pebble pictures

So it seems unreasonable to imagine that competent Babylonian mathematicians were unaware of the relation between (3,4,5) and (45,60,75)

Moreover this relationship is relevant to the first column of Plimpton 322; since here it does not actually matter which of the two common reconstructions of the first column we use, I will illustrate with the simple assumption that the first column gives S^2/L^2 where S and L are the short and long legs of the triple: using more modern concepts, this is the square of the tangent of the smaller acute angle in the triangle. One might want a table of such ratios for astronomical purposes (say); and a natural way to construct such a table would be to compute the ratio for various known right triangles, the easiest being (3,4,5)

To compute 3^2/4^2 in Babylonian sexagesimal notation, one should like the denominator a power of 60: this is accomplished by first multiplying by 15^2/15^2 to obtain (3x15)^2/(4x15)^2 = (45)^2/(60)^2; then dividing 45^2 = 2025 by 60 to obtain a quotient and remainder 2025 = 33 x 60 + 45; and finally noting (33 x 60 + 45)/60^2 = 33/60 + 45/60^2 which in the Babylonian notation is 33 45 -- exactly as reported by the tablet

Similar methods will work whenever L divides a power of 60: that is, whenever L is a product of 2s, 3s, and 5s -- which is the case for EVERY triple in the tablet. For example, the triple (119, 120, 169) could lead to the calculation

119^2/120^2 = (119^2*15)/(120^2*15) = 212415/60^3 = (59 x 60^2 + 15)/60^3 = 59/60 + 15/60^3 which corresponds to the Babylonian notation 59 0 15 reported

Sometimes rather tedious computation with large numbers is required, but the ability involved is mechanical. A more interesting question might be how the Babylonians actually found triples having L a product of 2s, 3s, and 5s: I am not enough of a number theoretician to be sure, but I suspect a hard theory might lie here so that we should think the Babylonians found such triples by trial and error

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

republicans claim Babylonians used proveable math Achilleaze Aug 2017 #1
LOL iluvtennis Aug 2017 #12
We MUST find the other tablets! Plucketeer Aug 2017 #2
"... other experts on .. Plimpton 322 .. say the new work is speculative at best ..." struggle4progress Aug 2017 #3
I love science and Science. Always something fascinating to learn. GeoWilliam750 Aug 2017 #8
Mansfield & Wildberger agree - from their paper: dalton99a Aug 2017 #32
"more accurate than any available today" ?? Um, yeah, right. eppur_se_muova Aug 2017 #4
confusing, but not wrong .... MountainFool Aug 2017 #6
Kinda late to change, except for maybe a standalone application. rickford66 Aug 2017 #10
This can be ... aggiesal Aug 2017 #27
He's right, sorta, but we've been using base 10 for a loooong time and are used to it... TreasonousBastard Aug 2017 #14
360 degrees; 60 minutes; 60 seconds; months of 12, days of 30, hours of 24. The key number was SIX, WinkyDink Aug 2017 #15
Babylonian Schoolhouse Rock! LudwigPastorius Aug 2017 #34
Most high level trig Sgent Aug 2017 #19
That Would Have Been One Awkward Keyboard DallasNE Aug 2017 #20
And you would know differently, how, exactly? WinkyDink Aug 2017 #13
Trig tables are basically obsolete caraher Aug 2017 #21
Simple microprocessors don't have floating point math coprocessors. hunter Aug 2017 #33
Yeah, "more accurate". Dr. Strange Aug 2017 #23
Making quantities easier to calculate, not necessarily more accurate. eppur_se_muova Aug 2017 #25
I'm guessing the isosceles right triangle was a special case, with known useful approximations. hunter Aug 2017 #41
You are obviously correct Progressive dog Aug 2017 #43
Fake math! - So sad! keithbvadu2 Aug 2017 #5
Wonder if any of this was taught as NEW math dembotoz Aug 2017 #7
As long as they only have one of the Millennium items... AngryAmish Aug 2017 #9
Aliens. Kingofalldems Aug 2017 #11
+1 progressoid Aug 2017 #36
Isn't Babylon what is modern day IranIraq in a the Middle East ? kimbutgar Aug 2017 #16
Iraq. Iran was Persia. Two very different cultures. yardwork Aug 2017 #45
As an aside: One of these researchers is N J Wildberger - he has a History Of Math course online. Jim__ Aug 2017 #17
Thanks Jim! thbobby Aug 2017 #39
K&R & thanks. nt tblue37 Aug 2017 #18
"The 3,700-year-old broken clay tablet ..." left-of-center2012 Aug 2017 #22
It's impolite to ask a tablet's age Orrex Aug 2017 #24
Coffee meet keyboard. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2017 #30
Plimpton 322 poses several challenges struggle4progress Aug 2017 #26
Which raises the question of why did they multiply the 3,4,5 triplet by 15? muriel_volestrangler Aug 2017 #28
On inspection, the wild fluctuations (of the sizes in the second and third columns) struggle4progress Aug 2017 #29
It's homework, then, and waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay overdue. mahatmakanejeeves Aug 2017 #35
I found one of the earlier papers investigating this muriel_volestrangler Aug 2017 #37
I suppose that's possible but it's very easy to see, from pebble pictures, that struggle4progress Aug 2017 #40
This is where I love being hopelessly liberal arts and mathematically challenged. Pacifist Patriot Aug 2017 #31
This makes me wonder about human intellect defacto7 Aug 2017 #38
That's why anti-intellectual traditions scare me. hunter Aug 2017 #42
Don't Fall for Babylonian Trigonometry Hype Dr. Strange Aug 2017 #44
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