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ehrnst

(32,640 posts)

74. To replace one dogma with another, no matter how exciting to some

Sun Feb 25, 2018, 04:34 PM

Feb 2018

is still dogma, be it on the right or the left.

The right has "getting rid of Planned Parenthood will end abortion," and the left has "Single Payer/Medicare for All is the only way to reform health care in the US."

Both are very exciting and unifying, very tribal, sound simple and logical, but both don't take into account the complexities of the issues they address. They also rely on misinformation, or lack of information from admired leaders who mean well.

Both camps accuse those who point out what the experts on health policy have to say of being "shills" and not having "vision," and not being part of the tribe.

Being pragmatic and evidence-based isn't always inspirational, and certainly gets you bounced from the tribe.

Again, that's why I'm a UU, and not a Baptist.

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California Democrats decline to endorse Feinstein [View all] DonViejo Feb 2018 OP

I'm cool with that Cartoonist Feb 2018 #1

I'm not. LisaM Feb 2018 #101

... mcar Feb 2018 #2

Rebuke? I thought they NEVER endorse before the primary, which is it? Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #127

It seems like Politico, at least, is trying to push mcar Feb 2018 #129

It's not uncommon for a State Convention to not endorse a particular candidate... George II Feb 2018 #3

"...the vote this weekend - while embarrassing - was not unexpected." TheSmarterDog Feb 2018 #4

For the vote that really counts, the Primary, she's ahead 41% to 27%. George II Feb 2018 #5

+1 lunasun Feb 2018 #106

This seems to be visceral reaction BumRushDaShow Feb 2018 #6

+1000 SkyDaddy7 Feb 2018 #107

My 2 cents left-of-center2012 Feb 2018 #7

I don't think it's about age. zentrum Feb 2018 #10

+1 jalan48 Feb 2018 #14

+2 Go progressives! nt earthshine Feb 2018 #32

+3! Should have given you a Valentine's heart! Next year. KPN Feb 2018 #60

Lol. Thank you. Very zentrum Feb 2018 #90

+1000 LiberalLovinLug Feb 2018 #76

Thank you, zentrum. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #134

What does "Bernie" have to do with this? We're talking about California. George II Feb 2018 #163

This part of the discussion zentrum Feb 2018 #166

Is Vermont exempt from this reform?? R B Garr Feb 2018 #171

There were almost 3000 Delegates at the convention. Which "they" said..... George II Feb 2018 #172

Will Bernie be primaried in Vermont? He has not R B Garr Feb 2018 #168

How is Bernie being zentrum Feb 2018 #173

In California the top two finishers in the non-partisan primary face off in the GE. George II Feb 2018 #174

As I say, I assume zentrum Feb 2018 #175

If "the same old order" prevails it will be the will of the people of California.... George II Feb 2018 #177

Your own post #10 says "Look at Bernie" R B Garr Feb 2018 #179

Actually, my comment zentrum Feb 2018 #182

Yes. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #133

For some, lack of endorsement by the Democratic establishment is a measure progressive credibility. ehrnst Feb 2018 #8

What is progressive credibility? What does that mean? KPN Feb 2018 #61

Oh, hello. ehrnst Feb 2018 #64

Actually, I meant that question quite honestly. Where have I heard KPN Feb 2018 #66

If you were on DU in early 2016 ehrnst Feb 2018 #67

Do you consider yourself to be a progressive? KPN Feb 2018 #68

Yes. It's why I'm a Democrat. ehrnst Feb 2018 #69

Yes, of course. But I think we think differently about what that means KPN Feb 2018 #70

I think that many view politics in a tribal context. ehrnst Feb 2018 #71

But what you characterize as tribal or litmus tests are not always seen that way KPN Feb 2018 #73

To replace one dogma with another, no matter how exciting to some ehrnst Feb 2018 #74

Not all dogma are equal. KPN Feb 2018 #75

Change needs to be evidence based ehrnst Feb 2018 #79

Not dismissing those victories or social issues KPN Feb 2018 #84

When you were talking about the 'dogma that has been shown to be ineffective for the last 40 years' ehrnst Feb 2018 #85

I read this article in the San Siego Free Press this past week BigmanPigman Feb 2018 #88

You may have me confused with the poster that I asked the question of ehrnst Feb 2018 #91

Well, clearly, the assumption that seeking KPN Feb 2018 #96

So you are saying that for the last 40 years ehrnst Feb 2018 #97

To answer your first queston: Yes, generally. But I also get and appreciate what KPN Feb 2018 #100

So are we still talking about 40 years? or are we going back to 68 and 72? ehrnst Feb 2018 #103

Crickets... ehrnst Feb 2018 #162

Where? Patience -- been busy with other stuff. Ever happen to you? KPN Feb 2018 #164

So you refuse to answer concerning the specific, particular issues that I listed. ehrnst Feb 2018 #165

Lol. I did answer. You just didn't accept my answer it seems. KPN Feb 2018 #167

Yes, I genuinely missed it. Can you repeat the answer to this question? ehrnst Feb 2018 #169

Here you go. KPN Feb 2018 #170

Going to keep avoiding adressing the issues/legislation I specified, I see. ehrnst Feb 2018 #178

Why would they be embarrassing? KPN Feb 2018 #180

Nice pivot. ehrnst Feb 2018 #181

Nice pivot yourself. So why would they be embarassing? KPN Feb 2018 #186

... ehrnst Feb 2018 #188

Clever. KPN Feb 2018 #190

Paul knew how to get things done ehrnst Feb 2018 #191

Thanks for sharing. Well, he was and still is a true blue progressive in my eyes. KPN Feb 2018 #194

The Times They are a Changin'............. jalan48 Feb 2018 #9

As she left the stage, de Len supporters in the crowd yelled back at the 84-year-old, Times up! T Henhouse Feb 2018 #11

That is revolting mcar Feb 2018 #36

+1, their methods are very recognizable childish sneering. R B Garr Feb 2018 #42

I was there. She went over her allotted speaking time and music started playing like at the deurbano Feb 2018 #43

Thanks for the close-up info, deurbano. elleng Feb 2018 #50

Thanks. Glad to know that its collective Democratic head is still okay. ancianita Feb 2018 #54

Thanks for the on-the-ground reporting and even handed analysis. Im also noticing a lot of suffragette Feb 2018 #72

De Leon Garners A Lot Of Corporate Money Me. Feb 2018 #104

Thanks for the first-person account mcar Feb 2018 #130

It is time for Dianne Feinstein to stop running. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #136

This will only matter if the older men like Bernie are R B Garr Feb 2018 #147

Those of us in California will make that decision. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #151

I live here. R B Garr Feb 2018 #154

It isn't contrived divisiveness. Southern California has a larger population than Sophia4 Feb 2018 #155

This is very seriously contrived. Its hard to take this R B Garr Feb 2018 #156

Northern California has two senators. Southern California has had no senator since 1992. Sophia4 Feb 2018 #157

So it is about Northern California vs Southern California. R B Garr Feb 2018 #158

I want to add that Sophia4 Feb 2018 #152

The same type of empty demonization of Feinstein R B Garr Feb 2018 #153

They didn't endorse anybody Cha Feb 2018 #12

Quite Right Me. Feb 2018 #105

Yes, now that we know the russianbots are Cha Feb 2018 #122

Very, and not just bots. There are FSB or KGB agents assigned to posting on social media Eliot Rosewater Feb 2018 #192

I hope De Leon wins! ananda Feb 2018 #13

Unless you are from California, those of us who are will decide quite nicely who will represent our still_one Feb 2018 #23

+++ sheshe2 Feb 2018 #27

+1 dalton99a Feb 2018 #29

Unless you are from California ... LenaBaby61 Feb 2018 #30

+1000! mcar Feb 2018 #37

I'm from Ca, and I think I'd prefer to have her remain in the Senate. olddad56 Feb 2018 #87

DU is replete with threads in which people opine about out-of-state races. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #131

This isn't just opining, it is distorting and misrepresenting Feinstein as some kind of "republican still_one Feb 2018 #135

Sorry, but it IS "just opining" Jim Lane Feb 2018 #145

The "our revolution" gang has no idea about de Leon's politics, for them it is just anything but still_one Feb 2018 #148

THIS. ehrnst Feb 2018 #161

Yes, we should be discussing Vermont more than R B Garr Feb 2018 #149

I do think Feinstein should lose. David__77 Feb 2018 #34

Also a lifelong Californian SoCalNative Feb 2018 #80

I think its good that, either way, a Democrat will win. David__77 Feb 2018 #95

yes it is, and the fact is that both de Leon and Feinstein are both good Democrats who align with still_one Feb 2018 #137

amd you will have a chance to vote in June and November as will I, and we will see who will win still_one Feb 2018 #93

I agree. MosheFeingold Feb 2018 #176

There's just too much trump-russia ... woundedkarma Feb 2018 #15

+1 from me pandr32 Feb 2018 #18

Party sould not endorse a ,,, Cryptoad Feb 2018 #16

Amen left-of-center2012 Feb 2018 #25

Good. This is what needs to be done in blue states.... vi5 Feb 2018 #17

Are you from California? still_one Feb 2018 #21

When was the last time she voted against the party? RhodeIslandOne Feb 2018 #22

19 times in this last session to be exact... vi5 Feb 2018 #45

I wish your link worked RhodeIslandOne Feb 2018 #51

She's had some fairly hawkish votes..... vi5 Feb 2018 #53

Remove the period at the end: Qutzupalotl Feb 2018 #78

No surprise that Politico would MIS-characterize the situation. Politico, based in Virgina, telling still_one Feb 2018 #19

California Democrats decline to endorse de Leon Tactical Peek Feb 2018 #26

Exactly. Stir the pot, attract readers, get advertising bucks still_one Feb 2018 #57

De Leon won a majority of support at convention. David__77 Feb 2018 #39

Feinstein has the majority support of likely DEMCRATIC voters still_one Feb 2018 #58

That poll doesnt invalidate that De Leon won majority support at the convention. David__77 Feb 2018 #59

I agree. Politico consistently creates controversy within the Democratic Party. KPN Feb 2018 #63

May I offer a word of caution. pazzyanne Feb 2018 #20

Is it? RhodeIslandOne Feb 2018 #24

Just saying that a seat that would have been a sure thing pazzyanne Feb 2018 #41

May I offer a word of caution. LenaBaby61 Feb 2018 #31

Come on.......dude! spicysista Feb 2018 #28

economic & foreign policy centrists kill turn out yurbud Feb 2018 #44

Leftists lose swing voters which decide elections. nm mr_liberal Feb 2018 #77

that's partly wishful thinking, partly bad strategy for winning those voters yurbud Feb 2018 #99

If there were a partisan primary, I think Feinstein could lose. David__77 Feb 2018 #33

that's a good bit of info. I thought she was at least progressive on stuff like that yurbud Feb 2018 #46

Here is an article on that. David__77 Feb 2018 #47

wow. She could have done NOTHING & let it go into effect and been off the hook politically yurbud Feb 2018 #49

Of course they didn't. leftofcool Feb 2018 #35

It's time for a change. BadGimp Feb 2018 #38

time to retire. She is good on gun control & social issues but when money is involved... yurbud Feb 2018 #40

She could always retire and help her husband madville Feb 2018 #56

no kidding. yurbud Feb 2018 #62

From me in San Francisco: Throwing Feinstein out at this time would be a horrible mistake. NBachers Feb 2018 #48

From Iraq war, to flag burning constitution amendments, a shit sandwich of political positions. David__77 Feb 2018 #52

As someone who was represented by her for years Egnever Feb 2018 #81

We need young blood in the democratic party KWR65 Feb 2018 #55

I have no problem with this since she's always been a defense hawk, but! Javaman Feb 2018 #65

I don't think the Russian government has hundreds of agents among the CA Democratic Party delegates. David__77 Feb 2018 #110

doesn't have to be "hundreds of agents" that's very old school Javaman Feb 2018 #114

Do you think Twitter activity caused the majority of delegates to vote for De Leon? David__77 Feb 2018 #116

I have no idea Javaman Feb 2018 #117

Holy shit, the comments on this OP thegoose Feb 2018 #82

Taking back control of the House and the Senate summer_in_TX Feb 2018 #86

Did you forget this? LisaM Feb 2018 #102

Way past time to make humbled_opinion Feb 2018 #83

"conflict between progressive and more moderate forces" bunt homer Feb 2018 #89

I have no problem voting out Feinstein reggaehead Feb 2018 #92

I don't know how to feel. SteveABG Feb 2018 #94

This? For Example Me. Feb 2018 #111

I searched and didn't see indication that Ben Hueso's Hortensis Feb 2018 #120

If It Was Untrue, I'd See It As A Hit Job Me. Feb 2018 #123

Providing a babysitter instead of a driver? Really? It's NOT true. Hortensis Feb 2018 #125

We Will Have To Agree To Disagree On This Me. Feb 2018 #126

I don't see that perk as outrageous. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #132

I Understand Your Point Me. Feb 2018 #138

It's certainly not THE solution. Jim Lane Feb 2018 #146

It's Not The Worst, As You Say Me. Feb 2018 #150

Yeah SteveABG Mar 2018 #195

The Russian Bots have ramped up support for this in the last 48 hours ehrnst Feb 2018 #98

They wasted no time tossing out magical fairie dust..AGAIN Wwcd Feb 2018 #108

Kevin De Leon is a Democrat, and won majority support at the state convention. David__77 Feb 2018 #109

They Already Have A Dem Me. Feb 2018 #112

So do Lipinski's constituents in Illinois. David__77 Feb 2018 #113

Are You Seriously Comparing The Two? Me. Feb 2018 #115

Feinstein and Lipinski are both Democrats. David__77 Feb 2018 #118

One Is Ultra Conservative Me. Feb 2018 #119

Yes they do. And she has shown the strength & value of her wisdom & long serving status lately. Wwcd Feb 2018 #121

How About The Release Of The Fusion GPS Testimony Me. Feb 2018 #124

We all know who's pushing to get rid of DF. Wwcd Feb 2018 #139

Here's Some Info For You Me. Feb 2018 #141

Holee Fk! And THIS is who the CA Nurses have endorsed??! Wwcd Feb 2018 #142

They Didn't Miss His Background, They Are Conveniently Ignoring It Me. Feb 2018 #185

Who began the 1st Woman's Movement March? Yup. Wwcd Feb 2018 #187

We Have To Keep Pushing This Conversation Me. Feb 2018 #189

Interesting. de Leon helped to kill whistleblower R B Garr Feb 2018 #183

Right Me. Feb 2018 #184

I think she'll win anyway mvd Feb 2018 #128

Old? But she's not stupid nor wish washy in her knowledge of pushing against the Repubs.. Wwcd Feb 2018 #140

I strongly suspect there will be some sad people come November. herding cats Feb 2018 #143

Surprised Sarandon hasn't jumped on this . Yet. Wwcd Feb 2018 #144

Only a matter of time. democratisphere Feb 2018 #160

It's simple. United we can win, divided we will remain where we are and democratisphere Feb 2018 #159

Post removed Post removed Feb 2018 #193