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Hortensis

(58,785 posts)

17. Look, reducing superdelegates would actually reduce

Sat Mar 10, 2018, 12:55 PM

Mar 2018

the power of a candidate who lost the popular vote to get the superdelegates to just appoint him the nominee, as happened in 2016. That was a big wake-up call, and we need to make sure no candidate could ever win that way.

At the same time, bad candidates would also try to overset the will of Democratic Party voters in other ways, so we need to also block those. Another way to get the popular vote put aside, of course, is to manipulate state elections so that a candidate can lose the popular vote but end up with more delegates, as the Republicans did in 2010 and 2016. Not good.

Be patient. We'll get there. Itm, always examine what people want for what they might do with it, not what they say. When demands for change are blocked, don't automatically assume the change is good. There's often damned good reason for saying a huge, "Are you kidding? Not in this party!."

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Democrats delay change to convention superdelegates [View all] DonViejo Mar 2018 OP

Meet the new boss, Fiendish Thingy Mar 2018 #1

Exactly right. They can't be rid of superdelegates because they refuse to be rid of superdelegates. marble falls Mar 2018 #4

Look, reducing superdelegates would actually reduce Hortensis Mar 2018 #17

for the most part, having them is anti-democratic and corrupt. yurbud Mar 2018 #21

Yurbud, a Democratic Party (!!!) candidate once Hortensis Mar 2018 #23

Lincoln was a Republican. Tactical Peek Mar 2018 #25

Lol. Glad you think so: Lincoln was a sensible LIBERAL. Hortensis Mar 2018 #26

The party of Lincoln? Yeah, that was racist too Exotica Mar 2018 #73

Notably, theRepubicans have NO great people of their Hortensis Mar 2018 #74

I in no way would call him great, and he had his own immense flaws, but IF the Republicans Exotica Mar 2018 #77

Eisenhower'd despise today's Republicans, and vice versa. Hortensis Mar 2018 #79

The Democrats during Lincoln's time were like most white males, highly prejudiced and racist. still_one Mar 2018 #81

To enlarge, clarity comes with using the words conservative Hortensis Mar 2018 #82

I agree with your entire analysis Hortensis still_one Mar 2018 #83

Wish people badmouthing our party knew this, Hortensis Mar 2018 #84

So why did Bernie Sanders agree to be one? (nt) ehrnst Mar 2018 #45

Yurbud, are we agreed the answer is "situational ethics"? Hortensis Mar 2018 #54

Would you buy a slave if that was the only way you could free them? yurbud Mar 2018 #91

I don't agree with anyone 100% of the time. yurbud Mar 2018 #63

Convenient response to the question, though not an answer to the question. LanternWaste Mar 2018 #89

I disagree. They vote with the person with the most votes...and I would remind you that Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #93

Super delegates have never gone against the winner of the popular vote Gothmog Mar 2018 #29

Underline this! They've done well. The one time Hortensis Mar 2018 #34

Stop bringing up the 2008 primary. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2018 #71

No need to go to 2008, the Bernie campaign tried to sway them in 2016. tammywammy Mar 2018 #72

Hillary Clinton endorsed President Obama early in June before the Texas state Democratic Convention Gothmog Mar 2018 #78

Hassin, the discussion is changes to our party rules Hortensis Mar 2018 #85

All the more reason to end their existence as voting delegates at conventions. Sophia4 Mar 2018 #51

Not in the real world Gothmog Mar 2018 #53

How do you define the term "Democrat"? Sophia4 Mar 2018 #55

Again... Bernie was one of those superdelegates that you say "uggggggh!" ehrnst Mar 2018 #57

No response yet Gothmog Mar 2018 #76

You should not use terms that you do not know the definition of Gothmog Mar 2018 #59

Damn straight. ehrnst Mar 2018 #61

That is a very narrow definition of corrupt and corruption. Sophia4 Mar 2018 #62

LOL-thank you for the laughs Gothmog Mar 2018 #69

Don't derail this discussion with facts... ehrnst Mar 2018 #80

Facts do beat silly definitions that do not support the arguments advanced Gothmog Mar 2018 #88

Thank you for an excellent post, Gothmog, and for bringing valued rationality R B Garr Mar 2018 #110

Who called "Democrats corrupt just to support one Senator"? Sophia4 Mar 2018 #116

Ive seen previous posts, though. R B Garr Mar 2018 #117

Nominations for public office should be made by the voters, decided by the voters. Sophia4 Mar 2018 #114

Again you were wrong before and you are still wrong Gothmog Mar 2018 #119

We are each entitled to his/her opinion. Sophia4 Mar 2018 #120

But such practice is not corrupt Gothmog Mar 2018 #124

It is corrupt because it places one person in a much more powerful position Sophia4 Mar 2018 #125

Again you are using a term that you do not understand Gothmog Mar 2018 #127

Super delegates at a convention that is supposed to reflect the outcome of a democratic Sophia4 Mar 2018 #128

Again, using a term that you do not understand does not help your argument Gothmog Mar 2018 #130

The definition of corrupt is much broader than that. Sophia4 Mar 2018 #115

I responded to that post to show how wrong you were in that post Gothmog Mar 2018 #118

I have explained several times that I am accusing an institution, not individuals, Sophia4 Mar 2018 #121

And you are wrong Gothmog Mar 2018 #122

You are entitled to your opinion, and I to mine. Sophia4 Mar 2018 #123

You really do not understand the process at all Gothmog Mar 2018 #126

Why do you think that Bernie participated in what you say is a "corrupt process?" ehrnst Mar 2018 #129

And his top campaign adviser helped create the system of super delegates..... George II Mar 2018 #132

Not everything is a superficial corruption rally cry. R B Garr Mar 2018 #109

Bernie was a Superdelegate. ehrnst Mar 2018 #56

We do need them or we need to restructure our primaries in order to get Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #94

Actually, super delegates were invented because the Democratic hierarchy was not Sophia4 Mar 2018 #98

I know what happened... Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #101

As happened in 2016??? karynnj Mar 2018 #50

The SD rules have been in BlueMTexpat Mar 2018 #35

Bingo. Candidates who run for POTUS on a Dem ticket agree to the rules when they run. ehrnst Mar 2018 #38

There seem to be BlueMTexpat Mar 2018 #40

Well, anyone who runs as a Dem agrees to those rules. Bernie was a superdelegate ehrnst Mar 2018 #43

They only care about "perceived influence" lagomorph777 Mar 2018 #90

If I'm not mistaken, super delegates have never determined our candidate. George II Mar 2018 #2

If they have no effect, no use, why have them? marble falls Mar 2018 #5

Congressional Black Caucus: Keep superdelegate system in place Gothmog Mar 2018 #30

That article was from June 2016. Anything changed since then? JustABozoOnThisBus Mar 2018 #66

The CBC is still against this proposal Gothmog Mar 2018 #67

Good.n/t MBS Mar 2018 #68

That open Supreme Court seat was known way before the R B Garr Mar 2018 #112

We have them so we can avoid a Trump like candidate and to avoid a legal mess in the event of a Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #95

Who is the Trump of the left? Unlike Republicans, we don't have brain damaged racist wing yurbud Mar 2018 #99

you can say that after 16? A whole lot of people fell for the Russian crap...and think about this... Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #100

the bottom line is it's a check on democracy, and that's how Hillary used it yurbud Mar 2018 #103

What evidence is there that people voted based on the "Russia crap" yurbud Mar 2018 #104

It is pretty clear the Russians attacked our elections and tricked many into voting for Stein... Demsrule86 Mar 2018 #105

Were there a lot more votes for Stein than in the past? yurbud Mar 2018 #108

Post removed Post removed Mar 2018 #9

How did super delegates determine the nominee? George II Mar 2018 #10

read the article INdemo Mar 2018 #14

I did, they didn't. George II Mar 2018 #16

But that's sort of close to the target. Igel Mar 2018 #12

The point I was making with this reference was INdemo Mar 2018 #15

In what way? And why would anyone have run on a Democratic ticket if ehrnst Mar 2018 #44

Disclaimer - this is NOT refighting the primary (although others apparently are), but..... George II Mar 2018 #60

The linked article cites no nomination determined by superdelegates, Tactical Peek Mar 2018 #19

the article was in March of 2016 and Hillary already had 496 Superdelegates. INdemo Mar 2018 #20

I read the damn article. Tactical Peek Mar 2018 #22

She had worked with many of them for decades. ehrnst Mar 2018 #48

Congressional Black Caucus balks at two political reforms being pitched by Bernie Sanders Gothmog Mar 2018 #31

bingo Champion Jack Mar 2018 #27

Bernie was a Superdelegate, so he knew exactly what he was signing up for ehrnst Mar 2018 #39

This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Mar 2018 #41

Not seeing where they selected the candidate - the voters did. ehrnst Mar 2018 #42

Exactly. BlueMTexpat Mar 2018 #36

Say what? ananda Mar 2018 #3

Eliminate them. CentralMass Mar 2018 #6

Black Caucus plans to defend Democrats' use of superdelegates Gothmog Mar 2018 #32

I'm surprised, I tells ya, completely bowled over!!! Javaman Mar 2018 #7

What about the caucuses? Upstate One Mar 2018 #8

Why? Igel Mar 2018 #13

Caucuses are the antithesis to the popular vote. ehrnst Mar 2018 #47

I sincerely hope so! eom BlueMTexpat Mar 2018 #37

DNC once again teases with notions of reform Devil Child Mar 2018 #11

From the article cited in the OP Gothmog Mar 2018 #33

This message was self-deleted by its author INdemo Mar 2018 #18

WTF is that supposed to mean? murielm99 Mar 2018 #24

Do you think he is transgender? ehrnst Mar 2018 #46

I am not surprised at this Gothmog Mar 2018 #28

If the Dems want to repair their image Catch2.2 Mar 2018 #49

So Bernie Sanders - who was a Superdelegate in 2016, was one of "the same old establishment Dems?" ehrnst Mar 2018 #58

Who is pushing for this change other than some splinter groups? Gothmog Mar 2018 #75

I don't think you understand the image problem is Hortensis Mar 2018 #86

Superdelegates introduce sanity in to counter populists, an example of which is Trump. NNadir Mar 2018 #52

" " " " n/t MBS Mar 2018 #70

If superdelegates assure that the candidate is a Demcorat question everything Mar 2018 #64

Yes. This. Thank you. NurseJackie Mar 2018 #107

Good mcar Mar 2018 #65

The funny thing is, that if they got rid of superdelegates, the winner would be clear earlier KitSileya Mar 2018 #87

The most glaring Irony is those pushing to eliminate superdelegates, GulfCoast66 Mar 2018 #92

Bingo. It is not about democracy, after all R B Garr Mar 2018 #111

They are an undemocratic vestige of "smoky back rooms." alarimer Mar 2018 #96

Color me suprised nolabels Mar 2018 #97

The most important reason to KEEP superdelegates is sitting in the White House jmowreader Mar 2018 #102

Thank you! (I'm totally in favor of superdelegates... NurseJackie Mar 2018 #106

+1 Blue_Tires Mar 2018 #134

Good... I'm still waiting for a better reason than Blue_Tires Mar 2018 #113

I know... weird, huh? NurseJackie Mar 2018 #133

No...every state would have caucuses jmowreader Mar 2018 #135

Yes, this is about Bernie's loss and tossing around the word corruption as R B Garr Mar 2018 #136

Seems like as a party we either stand for democratic principles or not. KPN Mar 2018 #131