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In reply to the discussion: CU professor calls “BS” on Romney’s 13 percent tax rate claim [View all]Major Nikon
(36,925 posts)61. This is exactly what I was talking about
Mitt Romney Tax Returns May Have Employed Legally Dubious Maneuvers, Tax Experts Say
WASHINGTON -- Tax experts who have begun to examine the Bain Capital documents released Thursday by Gawker are raising questions as to whether presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney has paid all the taxes he owed.
At issue are two tax-avoidance techniques employed by Bain Capital, the firm founded by Romney, which have been commonly used in the private equity world but have come under increasing legal scrutiny.
The first scheme involves owning U.S. dividend-paying stocks in an offshore account and pretending, for accounting purposes, not to own the stock. Instead, the taxpayer tells the Internal Revenue Service that he owns a derivative product that is identical in every way to the stock -- except it isn't the stock, so therefore no U.S. taxes are owed. It's called a "total return equity swap," because the buyer still gets the benefit -- the "total return" -- of owning the stock, or equity.
"This use of total return equity swaps, such as to avoid the U.S. dividend withholding tax, was very widespread for more than a decade, and may not be dead yet, although the IRS issued a shot-across-the-bow Notice concerning the practice in 2010," writes Daniel Shaviro, the Wayne Perry Professor of Taxation at New York University School of Law. "But taxpayers who engaged in it to avoid the dividend withholding tax were coming perilously close to committing tax fraud, in cases where the economic equivalence to direct ownership was too great."
The second technique is "not legal," according to Victor Fleischer, a tax expert and professor of law at the University of Colorado. A taxpayer saves substantial amounts of money by pretending that regular income received as a management fee for running a private equity firm is not income, but is instead a capital gain. That drops the tax rate on that income from 35 percent to 15 percent.
WASHINGTON -- Tax experts who have begun to examine the Bain Capital documents released Thursday by Gawker are raising questions as to whether presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney has paid all the taxes he owed.
At issue are two tax-avoidance techniques employed by Bain Capital, the firm founded by Romney, which have been commonly used in the private equity world but have come under increasing legal scrutiny.
The first scheme involves owning U.S. dividend-paying stocks in an offshore account and pretending, for accounting purposes, not to own the stock. Instead, the taxpayer tells the Internal Revenue Service that he owns a derivative product that is identical in every way to the stock -- except it isn't the stock, so therefore no U.S. taxes are owed. It's called a "total return equity swap," because the buyer still gets the benefit -- the "total return" -- of owning the stock, or equity.
"This use of total return equity swaps, such as to avoid the U.S. dividend withholding tax, was very widespread for more than a decade, and may not be dead yet, although the IRS issued a shot-across-the-bow Notice concerning the practice in 2010," writes Daniel Shaviro, the Wayne Perry Professor of Taxation at New York University School of Law. "But taxpayers who engaged in it to avoid the dividend withholding tax were coming perilously close to committing tax fraud, in cases where the economic equivalence to direct ownership was too great."
The second technique is "not legal," according to Victor Fleischer, a tax expert and professor of law at the University of Colorado. A taxpayer saves substantial amounts of money by pretending that regular income received as a management fee for running a private equity firm is not income, but is instead a capital gain. That drops the tax rate on that income from 35 percent to 15 percent.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/mitt-romney-tax-returns_n_1827632.html
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What in the world is this man griping about? The fact that you can use capital losses to offset
dkf
Aug 2012
#1
if ALL you have is capital losses, that is fine. but realizing losses while carrying gains....
unblock
Aug 2012
#6
harvesting naturally occuring losses is different from designing artificial losses to harvest.
unblock
Aug 2012
#43
i have no proof rmoney did it, but here's the strategy, and yes people have done this:
unblock
Aug 2012
#45
i'm not suggesting that the capital gains disappear, only that they're deferred.
unblock
Aug 2012
#51
you close out the short a and then re-establish it for the same amount 31 days later.
unblock
Aug 2012
#53
there are all sorts of ways around all sorts of problems. if you're rich, at least.
unblock
Aug 2012
#57
I think you're focusing on the fact that something has to be illegal to be considered in play for el
LanternWaste
Aug 2012
#48
13% of what is the kicker. What is his effective tax rate? Show us the returns Rmoney!
riderinthestorm
Aug 2012
#4
The returns wouldn't show the stuff the professor is talking about. That's the point.
BlueStreak
Aug 2012
#7
Do you think it would be more effective if he showed his IRS cancelled checks?
riderinthestorm
Aug 2012
#8