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Major Nikon

(36,925 posts)
61. This is exactly what I was talking about
Fri Aug 24, 2012, 09:11 PM
Aug 2012
Mitt Romney Tax Returns May Have Employed Legally Dubious Maneuvers, Tax Experts Say

WASHINGTON -- Tax experts who have begun to examine the Bain Capital documents released Thursday by Gawker are raising questions as to whether presumptive GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney has paid all the taxes he owed.

At issue are two tax-avoidance techniques employed by Bain Capital, the firm founded by Romney, which have been commonly used in the private equity world but have come under increasing legal scrutiny.

The first scheme involves owning U.S. dividend-paying stocks in an offshore account and pretending, for accounting purposes, not to own the stock. Instead, the taxpayer tells the Internal Revenue Service that he owns a derivative product that is identical in every way to the stock -- except it isn't the stock, so therefore no U.S. taxes are owed. It's called a "total return equity swap," because the buyer still gets the benefit -- the "total return" -- of owning the stock, or equity.

"This use of total return equity swaps, such as to avoid the U.S. dividend withholding tax, was very widespread for more than a decade, and may not be dead yet, although the IRS issued a shot-across-the-bow Notice concerning the practice in 2010," writes Daniel Shaviro, the Wayne Perry Professor of Taxation at New York University School of Law. "But taxpayers who engaged in it to avoid the dividend withholding tax were coming perilously close to committing tax fraud, in cases where the economic equivalence to direct ownership was too great."

The second technique is "not legal," according to Victor Fleischer, a tax expert and professor of law at the University of Colorado. A taxpayer saves substantial amounts of money by pretending that regular income received as a management fee for running a private equity firm is not income, but is instead a capital gain. That drops the tax rate on that income from 35 percent to 15 percent.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/24/mitt-romney-tax-returns_n_1827632.html

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What in the world is this man griping about? The fact that you can use capital losses to offset dkf Aug 2012 #1
Once again you've got the 1%'s back. kestrel91316 Aug 2012 #3
Whats he griping about? calilama Aug 2012 #5
Welcome to DU calilama...and you are right on with this one. AllyCat Aug 2012 #13
if ALL you have is capital losses, that is fine. but realizing losses while carrying gains.... unblock Aug 2012 #6
huh? naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #15
well just for that one paragraph of the explanation, sure, no taxes. unblock Aug 2012 #21
That's a loser argument naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #42
harvesting naturally occuring losses is different from designing artificial losses to harvest. unblock Aug 2012 #43
I'd love to see an actual example of this naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #44
i have no proof rmoney did it, but here's the strategy, and yes people have done this: unblock Aug 2012 #45
ok so, let's play with some numbers: naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #46
exactly. unblock Aug 2012 #47
yes of course, naaman fletcher Aug 2012 #49
It doesn't work that way. TruthAnalyzed Aug 2012 #50
i'm not suggesting that the capital gains disappear, only that they're deferred. unblock Aug 2012 #51
What difference is it supposed to make? TruthAnalyzed Aug 2012 #52
you close out the short a and then re-establish it for the same amount 31 days later. unblock Aug 2012 #53
... TruthAnalyzed Aug 2012 #54
let's just take this one part: unblock Aug 2012 #55
That is completely different TruthAnalyzed Aug 2012 #56
there are all sorts of ways around all sorts of problems. if you're rich, at least. unblock Aug 2012 #57
My point is TruthAnalyzed Aug 2012 #58
You ever hear of "artificial losses" Major Nikon Aug 2012 #9
So we want to hit Romney for doing things that were perfectly legal at the time. dkf Aug 2012 #24
Legal does not mean it's right Major Nikon Aug 2012 #25
Frankly I'm not sure why any exemption is fair and "right". dkf Aug 2012 #26
Obama doesn't take the standard deduction Major Nikon Aug 2012 #27
I wish you gave Trayvon Martin the benefit of the doubt you give Romney CreekDog Aug 2012 #31
you haven't seen his taxes, you don't know if they were legal CreekDog Aug 2012 #30
Legal? Ok, I can buy that, Dyedinthewoolliberal Aug 2012 #36
Yes, Rmoney was just "standing his ground" ashling Aug 2012 #41
I think you're focusing on the fact that something has to be illegal to be considered in play for el LanternWaste Aug 2012 #48
This is exactly what I was talking about Major Nikon Aug 2012 #61
I really really really cannot wait ... Trajan Aug 2012 #11
I hung out here for so long I started seeing the holes in the lefts arguments. dkf Aug 2012 #29
Looks like you damn Democrats with faint praise Kingofalldems Aug 2012 #34
LMFAO. You can always be counted on to... Marr Aug 2012 #14
You don't seem to mind when poor people are criticized, you even join in CreekDog Aug 2012 #18
Right On! HangOnKids Aug 2012 #22
Hard to say how ridiculous it might be quaker bill Aug 2012 #20
Our side? Kingofalldems Aug 2012 #32
"our side" - I'm pretty sure I'm not on your side. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #37
I can hear it now. "Technically true? That's the best kind of true!" n/t Akoto Aug 2012 #2
13% of what is the kicker. What is his effective tax rate? Show us the returns Rmoney! riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #4
The returns wouldn't show the stuff the professor is talking about. That's the point. BlueStreak Aug 2012 #7
Do you think it would be more effective if he showed his IRS cancelled checks? riderinthestorm Aug 2012 #8
The returns would be helpful, but they may not show the sheltered income. BlueStreak Aug 2012 #10
And I wonder if 10% of the 13% is his tithe to the Mormon Church... n/t flor-de-jasmim Aug 2012 #12
We Don't Even Know That Much DallasNE Aug 2012 #16
The claim is so vague...so wishy-washy...and such bullshit. SoapBox Aug 2012 #17
i can only say this 1 million times more.... Tunkamerica Aug 2012 #19
Hello Hello 13% Like Wow Man ! YOHABLO Aug 2012 #23
"capital losses" ... I mentioned that here the other day ... zbdent Aug 2012 #28
Has he actually seen Romney's returns? hughee99 Aug 2012 #33
Well, You Don't Know if Harry Reid is Telling the Truth On the Road Aug 2012 #38
I'm sure Reid is telling the truth though there's no way to prove he's not. hughee99 Aug 2012 #39
The Fact Is That Even A 13% Rate Is Very Low TomCADem Aug 2012 #40
The Main Point Will Change in a Second On the Road Aug 2012 #59
Yet, This Embraces A Double Standard. "Mainstream" Republicans... TomCADem Aug 2012 #60
LOVE it when the experts fill us in Skittles Aug 2012 #35
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