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The Liberal Lion

(1,414 posts)

42. I hate being in the position to defend religion

Sun Dec 23, 2018, 11:02 AM

Dec 2018

but I'm sure they have nuns in Denmark. Is a nun's habit that much different then the veils worn by Muslim women? I should think it is the place of the person who wears the veil to decide whether or not she wants to wear it. By being in Denmark now SHE has the right to choose whether she will wear it by way of the religious freedom guaranteed in the (Danish) constitution. That would be the adjustment to the culture, namely she now has the choice. Religious freedom means just that, people are free to practice their individual religion however they choose so long as it does not infringe on the rights of others, and government can not compel anyone to practice a religion in any form so long as it conforms to the first concept I said earlier in this sentence. We in the west are supposed to be the model of freedom, not playing tit for tat because people who may come to the west for such freedom come from a country where if a westerner went there those freedoms would be restricted.

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Denmark Passes Muslim-Focused Law Requiring Handshakes In Citizenship Ceremonies [View all] appalachiablue Dec 2018 OP

Why? Just have to dishonor someone else's religion? sinkingfeeling Dec 2018 #1

And to dissuade from seeking citizenship, obvious & mean. appalachiablue Dec 2018 #8

The only people it'll dissuade are folks who have demonstrated they don't want to integrate Jake Stern Dec 2018 #26

How is following your religion telling someone else they must follow yours? Cold War Spook Dec 2018 #54

When Muslim countries require all women to veil, aren't they disrespecting them? pnwmom Dec 2018 #34

I believe that making anyone follow your religion is wrong. Cold War Spook Dec 2018 #55

Except they aren't? EX500rider Dec 2018 #100

The custom of not shaking hands has to do with their religion-this law violates the right to freedom iluvtennis Dec 2018 #2

How this can hold up I don't know. appalachiablue Dec 2018 #6

"The Evangelical Lutheran Church of Denmark (Dansk Folkekirke) is the state religion... EX500rider Dec 2018 #9

The Danish Lutheran Church is a far cry from our fundies here... regnaD kciN Dec 2018 #24

Not that I agree with the law, christx30 Dec 2018 #15

Culture is one thing, Hav Dec 2018 #31

When non-Muslim visitors who are women are required to wear veils, pnwmom Dec 2018 #35

It seems to be a religious thing, probably both Hav Dec 2018 #63

It seems trivial to us, but it's symbolic to them. They see it as a sign of flexibility pnwmom Dec 2018 #70

+1. Same with the Swiss: dalton99a Dec 2018 #82

I have mixed feelings about this, but I have to observe.... Adrahil Dec 2018 #106

Would you defend the US making English the official language onenote Dec 2018 #51

You realize they don't operate under the U.S. Constitution, right? n/t pnwmom Dec 2018 #33

I think the criticisms are based on law. They're based on what is right and wrong. onenote Dec 2018 #52

It's a fucking handshake customerserviceguy Dec 2018 #76

Just what does it take to be so xenophobic that you sit around analyzing all the ProudLib72 Dec 2018 #3

Mean and as obvious as hell. appalachiablue Dec 2018 #5

Seems to be a reaction to what happened in Morocco recently ansible Dec 2018 #13

It's not a rational response by any means ProudLib72 Dec 2018 #21

not true, they want them to demonstrate they accept gender equality AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #84

Denmark has a right to screen applicants for citizenship. EX500rider Dec 2018 #73

Thank you for answering my question ProudLib72 Dec 2018 #74

absolutely AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #80

The world is full of horrible people. madaboutharry Dec 2018 #4

Let's be true: also discourages women from seeking citizenship. Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2018 #7

The requirement for women to veil themselves in Muslim countries also discourages some women pnwmom Dec 2018 #36

So Denmark should use... tonedevil Dec 2018 #103

Denmark is sending the message that people are welcome to be citizens pnwmom Dec 2018 #107

I'm pretty sure... tonedevil Dec 2018 #109

Well, you'd be wrong. They have an official state religion. And I don't see how requiring pnwmom Dec 2018 #110

Actually having a state religion... tonedevil Dec 2018 #111

This isn't "dressing it up as a gender rights issue." It is fundamentally a gender rights issue, pnwmom Dec 2018 #112

It is nothing short of ridiculous to... tonedevil Dec 2018 #115

What is the religious reason to not shake hands with members of the opposite sex? oberliner Dec 2018 #10

It's a rule to promote modesty between the sexes fountainofyouth Dec 2018 #19

Acting disrespectful does not show "modesty." SunSeeker Dec 2018 #22

Yes. My rabbi, solidly Orthodox, will shake hands in order EllieBC Dec 2018 #25

Fundamentally, it is a fear of being contaminated by a woman. pnwmom Dec 2018 #113

That's ridiculous! Who needs to shake someone's hand just to gain citizenship? When my mother.... George II Dec 2018 #11

to demonstrate that you can succesfully integrate into denmark society AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #79

How petty. nt eppur_se_muova Dec 2018 #12

Forcing somebody to touch somebody else for any reason lilactime Dec 2018 #14

I agree. NT Eric J in MN Dec 2018 #29

this is pretty specific and with good reason AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #81

I am a woman. NOBODY has the right to tell me to touch lilactime Dec 2018 #85

Which is fine of course, it just means you won't be granted Danish citizenship if u applied. n/t EX500rider Dec 2018 #92

It means the state is revictimizing women who are already victimized lilactime Dec 2018 #93

No one is victimized, if they don't like it go to some other country, there are 194 other ones. EX500rider Dec 2018 #94

Good for them! LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #16

I'm as much anti-(fairy tale) deity worship as you give in your post The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #17

But many of these Muslim people come from countries that require women who live in those pnwmom Dec 2018 #37

I hate being in the position to defend religion The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #42

The difference between a Muslim veil christx30 Dec 2018 #117

It's about putting customerserviceguy Dec 2018 #77

Based on your explanation and the logic contained within it The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #89

Frankly customerserviceguy Dec 2018 #108

What about people of faith here on DU, do you count them among the "weak minded"? Marengo Dec 2018 #96

I'm pretty sure the answer for your question was already found The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #98

How about answering with a yes or no? Or is that too intimidating for a courageous lion? Marengo Dec 2018 #101

I've not been coy in anyway. The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #104

Bullshit, now how about answering in the manner I have requested. Marengo Dec 2018 #105

I agree with you 100% obamanut2012 Dec 2018 #20

I'm very liberal but really agree with you lostnfound Dec 2018 #27

You do know Denmark has a state religion rpannier Dec 2018 #32

lots of countries have national religions* Mosby Dec 2018 #67

LiberalLovinLug, 100% right, please repost this on every religious thread StopTheNeoCons Dec 2018 #40

Damn good post LiberalLovinLug Devil Child Dec 2018 #58

Hear, Hear! smirkymonkey Dec 2018 #75

What if they are christian but have germophobia? The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #18

They can keep hand sanitizer in their pocket. nt SunSeeker Dec 2018 #23

I say good on 'em Jake Stern Dec 2018 #28

I'm sure they'll stop at handshakes this time, right? ck4829 Dec 2018 #39

I would say nationalist movements are taken off and finding fertile ground to sprout in the west The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #44

Would it be good on them onenote Dec 2018 #53

Center-right government. NT Eric J in MN Dec 2018 #30

So that would mean a Muslim who does shake hands (And many DO, no problem) is an equal citizen... ck4829 Dec 2018 #38

First they came for the Muslims, but I was not Islamic . . . ucrdem Dec 2018 #41

+1 ck4829 Dec 2018 #43

If they were coming after anyone I would agree... GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #46

It's a small thing, but small things add up fast. ucrdem Dec 2018 #49

I am stunned by all the intolerance I see on this thread coming from so called liberals and The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #45

This isn't about the US or Republicans. EX500rider Dec 2018 #48

"This is about Denmark deciding what kind of people they want to let in their country which is their onenote Dec 2018 #50

I'd say every country has a right to decide what kind of citizens they want to let in. EX500rider Dec 2018 #60

How about moving to a country Hav Dec 2018 #64

1st, where in the Quran does it say a hand may not be shaken in a induction ceremony? EX500rider Dec 2018 #66

So I guess you'd be cool with them forcing Orthodox Jews to eat a ham sandwich onenote Dec 2018 #69

I'd be fine with any screening out of any ultra-orthodox religious types...stay where you are. EX500rider Dec 2018 #71

You are correct this is about Denmark The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #56

"religious liberty" Oxymoron? LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #68

I am alarmed by liberals who defend radical islam AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #83

REALLY!!! The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #88

So I'm going with you never took issue with Pence EllieBC Dec 2018 #90

That has nothing to do with the price of tea in China The Liberal Lion Dec 2018 #91

No see this is a pattern. EllieBC Dec 2018 #95

It is ultra orthodox. EX500rider Dec 2018 #99

That is so wrong. Rustyeye77 Dec 2018 #47

I have at least 10 Muslim friends, and every single one of them shakes hands with others Polybius Dec 2018 #57

what about others? MortSahlFan Dec 2018 #61

What others? Polybius Dec 2018 #62

This law would affect extreme orthodox practitioners of all religions. EX500rider Dec 2018 #65

And that's how it should be LiberalLovinLug Dec 2018 #72

Extreme orthodox practitioners of all religions are the root of all evil. Squinch Dec 2018 #87

Denmark, wow, I am sad. Cold War Spook Dec 2018 #59

I'm sorry but if you are not willing to shake a woman's hand.... AlexSFCA Dec 2018 #78

If I were moving to a middle eastern country, I would understand that it meant I had Squinch Dec 2018 #86

This message was self-deleted by its author geralmar Dec 2018 #97

Not even gloves? That's ridiculous, IMO. Ilsa Dec 2018 #102

At its root, prohibitions on hand-shaking between men and women pnwmom Dec 2018 #114

Obviously Denmark isn't a bastion of religious freedom MrScorpio Dec 2018 #116

The Quran has no section forbidding male/female handshakes. EX500rider Dec 2018 #118