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ucrdem

(15,720 posts)

95. NAFTA didn't kill those rust belt jobs and pulling out of the TPP won't bring them back.

Sat Jan 5, 2019, 05:01 PM

Jan 2019

Those jobs started moving offshore after WWII and Detroit was in a crisis long before the Clintons took charge. I remember the popularity of Datsuns and Toyotas in the 1970s and Clinton was elected in 1992. NAFTA is an easy target but it's not the cause. The steel production that went to China for example -- China isn't a TPP signatory and wasn't part of NAFTA. But the jobs went there anyway. What good trade deals do is place some regulations on the countries we trade with and open up new markets for US products like produce and software. The old car and TV factories aren't coming back because those technologies are out of date. We need to keep innovating and we needed TPP to protect the intellectual property that makes US prosperity achievable for all workers and that includes green technology.

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At long last, 11-member Pacific trade deal takes effect [View all] Recursion Dec 2018 OP

It is good to know there are some sane, knowlegable people still in the world. pazzyanne Dec 2018 #1

I can recall when TPP was a hated term here... brooklynite Dec 2018 #11

Just like Obamacare was hated, pazzyanne Dec 2018 #12

Not even close to the same thing...the TPP provided benefits to rich globalists and Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #94

This message was self-deleted by its author pazzyanne Dec 2018 #13

The TPP is evil. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #37

Only if you haven't read it and don't understand it. allgood33 Jan 2019 #56

Slavery is never good in an context. But I have read it actually...and it is as bad as I thought. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #58

This treaty aint all that good. Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #27

I remember Minnesota farmers and Jesse Ventura pazzyanne Jan 2019 #38

Farmers suckered by Trump; djacq Dec 2018 #2

May not be a good deal for everyone... Maxheader Dec 2018 #3

When we were in it, it was supposed to be an anti-China bloc Recursion Dec 2018 #4

Thank you (not), 0range 45, for another ham-fisted adjustment to NCjack Dec 2018 #5

The global economy is a reality that everyone has to come to terms with Yavin4 Dec 2018 #6

The solution is courts open to Unions and Environmental Groups NOT JUST Corporations Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #28

As consumers, we benefit from this "out of control capitalist trade environment" Yavin4 Jan 2019 #41

I feel you Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #42

Just came from Best Buy Yavin4 Jan 2019 #52

Perhaps Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #54

It's not just the manufacturing that's the issue Yavin4 Jan 2019 #55

without jobs you can't buy stuff so jobs are more important. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #92

But there are jobs that come from globalization Yavin4 Jan 2019 #93

Signing onto bad deals that hurt our manufacturers is not the answer...we Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #71

How do you define "bad deals"? Yavin4 Jan 2019 #73

Workers have not been displaced their jobs were shipped out to countries with low wages. We can not Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #74

Not ALL workers. That's the problem. Yavin4 Jan 2019 #75

Few have benefited compared to the loss of good paying jobs Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #77

US unemployment fell steadily from 1994 to 2000, and real wages steadily rose: ucrdem Jan 2019 #81

Really, take a look at Gary Indiana , Detroit or Youngstown Ohio...and now white collar jobs are Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #88

NAFTA didn't kill those rust belt jobs and pulling out of the TPP won't bring them back. ucrdem Jan 2019 #95

GM sent a new truck to Mexico a month ago...and trade agreement are killing our jobs...NAFTA Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #96

Another sabotage of Obama's policy FakeNoose Dec 2018 #7

This message was self-deleted by its author Firestorm49 Dec 2018 #8

Too many unknowns. Firestorm49 Dec 2018 #9

You swallowed the Russian talking points very well Recursion Dec 2018 #10

Well, how come Obama, the Dems or the media never told us that Doitnow Dec 2018 #14

Obama did, nobody listened Recursion Dec 2018 #15

Guess you weren't listening. GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #16

I heard him supporting thr tpp but never heard him refute Doitnow Dec 2018 #20

God god man(or woman). GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #21

Sorry if I misled you, but I meant that I never heard Obama refute Doitnow Dec 2018 #24

Part of the reason we are where we are today are because of those who subscribe to the all or still_one Jan 2019 #26

Bernie long led that argument, but the blow that likely killed things was Clinton joining the karynnj Jan 2019 #68

I can't disagree with your political theory. GulfCoast66 Jan 2019 #76

Barack signed it into law in 2015. The blow that killed it was electing Trump. ucrdem Jan 2019 #82

It never passed the Senate karynnj Jan 2019 #83

The US and 11 other nations formally signed the deal on Feb 4, 2016. ucrdem Jan 2019 #85

Nothing I said disagrees with that karynnj Jan 2019 #86

No it wouldn't have helped her. The TPP was very unpopular...for good reason. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #91

Obama and many in his administration, including John Kerry explained TTP karynnj Jan 2019 #66

That is NOT true Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #29

Where are they now ucrdem Dec 2018 #17

Reich was more a "meh" sayer Recursion Dec 2018 #18

Jan 19, 2014: "The TPP is NAFTA on steroids." ucrdem Dec 2018 #19

Right! The attemt to re-right history on DU is astounding. GulfCoast66 Dec 2018 #22

Without a Doubt!! SkyDaddy7 Dec 2018 #23

You are correct. Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #30

Relieved they kept the unionization requirements for Vietnam, JHan Jan 2019 #25

Requirements??????? Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #31

sigh JHan Jan 2019 #32

You need to read it, because you clearly haven't Recursion Jan 2019 #33

So did NAFTA and none of it will ever be enforced. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #35

It's been enforced by NAFTA, FFS Recursion Jan 2019 #39

NO, NO Union has ever sued under any free trade agreements Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #46

You're just factually wrong. You need to do some reading on this Recursion Jan 2019 #50

Read the documents they are everywhere. Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #57

No it hasn't . My hubs worked in autos for years...and Mexico did not enforce any of Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #59

Successful? I don't think so...how about a link. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #72

No NAFTA did not have those provisions karynnj Jan 2019 #84

Not really true. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #87

And what are the penalties for failure to comply???? Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #43

They're set by those tribunals you seem so horrified by. Recursion Jan 2019 #44

Only if a country or nation takes up their cause for them. Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #47

Yep the tribunals are a joke and the US will win well never. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #60

No enforcement mechanism...all these great 'rights' and no way to make it happen...and that Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #36

This is hilarious: you complain about the tribunals, and then complain there is no enforcement Recursion Jan 2019 #40

ONLY Corporations and nations have standing to use the tribunals. NOT Unions, NOT citizens, Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #48

You should really learn more about NAFTA Recursion Jan 2019 #51

You don't either if you think Unions are taking their cases Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #53

No it doesn't...hubs worked in more than a few auto plants over the years...and many closed because Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #64

FAKE enforcement. Tribunals are a joke. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #61

That is a bad treaty. It allows slave labor. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #34

It does not allow slave labor Recursion Jan 2019 #45

It has absolutely NO penalties if a corporation uses slaves. Farmer-Rick Jan 2019 #49

Really...Malaysia was allowed to be part of the TPP ....there was a big argument about it because Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #63

Assange killing the TPP single-handedly was Blue_Tires Jan 2019 #62

And how did that happen? I am not an Assange fan but Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #65

Because trade negotiations are usually done "in secret"? Blue_Tires Jan 2019 #67

The TPP was fishy which allowed slave countries like Malaysia to join...sorry it was a bad agreement Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #69

The same Malaysia that's angling for an FTA with the EU? Blue_Tires Jan 2019 #78

Trump is an idiot...which doesn't mean that the TPP was a good agreement ...it was a bad Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #90

You have provided no evidence to show your talking points are correct. Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #70

"The participating nations will scrap tariffs on most products." ucrdem Jan 2019 #79

Japan doesn't stop us with 'tariffs' they use false 'safety' bullshit and fees ...they dump on our Demsrule86 Jan 2019 #89

WaPo: "Why Obama's key trade deal with Asia would actually be good for American workers" ucrdem Jan 2019 #80