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Denzil_DC

(8,924 posts)
7. 432:202 is a historic, crushing scale of defeat.
Tue Jan 15, 2019, 03:28 PM
Jan 2019

It at least means she's unlikely to try, try, and try again at this stage.


(pic stolen from Twitter)

There was no doubt about a defeat on this deal, but pundits had assessed a significant margin would be at least around 75-100. This margin should be decisive.

It goes without saying that May has to go.

Message from the EU (with more than a degree of impatience at this point):



What next? We'll see how tomorrow's no confidence motion goes (I'm not holding my breath).

Could this have been avoided? Voices are now saying she has to reach across the aisle, rather than the gentile patricianship that seems to be the core of her character.

Here's an important take from a Welsh politician on Twitter (and if May had had the wisdom to take this tack over two years ago, things could have gone quite differently, even for an ardent Remainer like me). An early draft of May's major pre-vote speech from a day ago claimed that previous UK referendum results had been accepted, whereas her and her party's votes in Parliament had doggedly opposed them, to the extent that Scottish devolution was originally rejected on a technicality until a second referendum, and opposition to Welsh devolution was actually a plank in a Conservative election manifesto.

Unexpectedly, the 1997 referendum on Welsh devolution is back in the news.

Setting aside Theresa May's misremembering/rank hypocrisy [delete according to taste] concerning her own and her own party's position, the lesson of Wales 1997 is actually about 'loser's consent' 1/

Welsh devolutionists (led by Ron Davies) fully realised that there was a real legitimacy question resulting from the very narrow referendum result. They worried about it, thought about and got people like myself to brief them about it in pretty lurid terms 2/
And to the extent that these things are possible, they deliberately set about trying to generate 'loser's consent' for the result.

* By involving opponents of devolution in discussions about the internal processes that would be adopted in the new National Assembly 3/
* By being unusually cross-party in their approach during the parliamentary passage of what became the 1998 Government of Wales Act (kudos here to the Wales
Office team of Ron Davies, @PeterHain and Win Griffiths)

4/
In other words, they realised that the referendum result was only a fragile mandate on which to build a new constitutional dispensation for Wales. That mandate had to be shored up. Undergirded. Supported.

5/
And the only way to do that was to be cross-party and to do what they could to reach out to and address the concerns of their opponents.

It helped, of course, that this approach 'went with the grain' of that particular ministerial team. There were also willing interlocutors

6/
But the fundamental point was that they realised that the narrowness of the referendum result meant that they simply had to make every effort to build consent among those who had been opposed as well as those who just hadn't bothered to participate in the vote.

Whole Twitter thread here: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1084721238809997313.html


Instead, any attempts (e.g. by the Scottish Government) at offering constructive input into the negotiation process were rejected, and Remainers were labeled "Bremoaners" and traitors or worse.

Hell mend her.

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And Corbyn has proposed the vote of no confidence in the government muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #1
That is a pretty steep margin! BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #2
May COULD have used the fact that Eyeball_Kid Jan 2019 #3
That's my issue... Why the hell aren't they making this the point and justifying a "re-vote" hlthe2b Jan 2019 #4
Because the opposition leader Corbyn hates the EU and wants brexit mathematic Jan 2019 #6
May is as much an opportunist as our Idiot-in-Chief is onetexan Jan 2019 #24
Here! Here! poli-junkie Jan 2019 #5
432:202 is a historic, crushing scale of defeat. Denzil_DC Jan 2019 #7
Ridiculous The King of Prussia Jan 2019 #8
Nevertheless, the DUP say they'll support her in it, as did Anna Soubry and Rees-Mogg muriel_volestrangler Jan 2019 #9
Indeed The King of Prussia Jan 2019 #10
So BBC Newsbreak had a guest that explained this Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2019 #13
agree, May needs to resign. Even her own party has no faith in her. That should be her cue to go. onetexan Jan 2019 #25
Soooooo, what now? Yavin4 Jan 2019 #11
Brexit: What could happen next? Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2019 #14
This is so confusing, even with the helpful chart. BigmanPigman Jan 2019 #15
Bottom line: here are the possibilities Algernon Moncrieff Jan 2019 #16
Thank you for that chart which was helpful spelling out the options BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #18
Thank you for the great summary. Kinda like Obamacare, keep it and fix the problems. onetexan Jan 2019 #26
brexit can't ever work because it was "built on a lie" Takket Jan 2019 #12
Brexit can't ever work because it was nothing more Blue_Tires Jan 2019 #20
There is a 3rd option and stay in the EU and try to iron out some of the problems they believe cstanleytech Jan 2019 #17
The problem of it is too much of Britain thinks it's entitled to Blue_Tires Jan 2019 #21
Putin and Rupert Murdoch fucked up the two biggest NATO members. pwb Jan 2019 #19
Theresa May survives no-confidence vote Baclava Jan 2019 #22
It seems like her own party is making her twist in the wind BumRushDaShow Jan 2019 #23
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