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pnwmom

(110,254 posts)

20. Do you think they should be able to play as girls without any hormone treatment?

Wed Feb 12, 2020, 05:19 PM

Feb 2020

Because that appears to be the issue.

https://ctmirror.org/2019/07/22/transgender-issues-polarizes-womens-advocates-a-conundrum/

Experts in girls’ sports and Title IX, the federal law that requires that women have equal access to sports, believe Soule and other cisgender athletes could have a valid complaint. They point out that both the NCAA and the Olympic Committee require transgender women to receive hormone treatment for at least a year and be tested for testosterone levels. The CIAC does not require either.

“I don’t know of a woman athlete who doesn’t want trans girls to be treated fairly,” said Donna Lopiano, who led the Women’s Sports Foundation for 15 years and now runs a Shelton-based consulting firm that works with clients on Title IX and other sports management issues. “But the cost of treating her fairly should not come at the cost of discriminating against a biologically-female-at birth woman.”

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Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes [View all] killaphill Feb 2020 OP

This is interesting. MontanaMama Feb 2020 #1

Interesting yet unfortunate killaphill Feb 2020 #2

I'm sorry, but that makes NO sense. alittlelark Feb 2020 #48

+ 1. nt iluvtennis Feb 2020 #50

Thank you.. whathehell Feb 2020 #51

agree Tumbulu Feb 2020 #73

Lots of opportunity in college/pro sports ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #82

+1 at140 Feb 2020 #77

False comparison Buzz cook Feb 2020 #90

And they have rules about it as well that include a minimum of a year taking female hormones. Tumbulu Feb 2020 #96

Except the trans athletes in this case aren't taking hormones. pnwmom Feb 2020 #101

There is no indication these athletes Buzz cook Feb 2020 #172

The trans girls not taking hormones is the basis of the cis girls' lawsuit. pnwmom Feb 2020 #173

The rules are a little more complicated than you imagine jberryhill Feb 2020 #128

If the transgender athletes SoCalNative Feb 2020 #159

Bingo jberryhill Feb 2020 #162

Transgender athletes would be competing post transition Bradical79 Feb 2020 #187

These athletes are not post-transition janterry Feb 2020 #191

The two trans athletes say they are "in the process of transitioning" but won't give details. pnwmom Feb 2020 #4

WTF are you talking about??? killaphill Feb 2020 #8

If they are only socially transitioning, and not medically transitioning, pnwmom Feb 2020 #9

There is no differentiation between "social" transitioning and "medical" transitioning killaphill Feb 2020 #11

Not according to Planned Parenthood. pnwmom Feb 2020 #12

Martina Navratilova, is that you? killaphill Feb 2020 #13

And this is from Trans Care at the University of California, San Francisco. pnwmom Feb 2020 #14

And this is the response from Transathlete killaphill Feb 2020 #15

Link? Both the NCAA and the Olympic Committee require hormone treatments for trans women pnwmom Feb 2020 #21

See below killaphill Feb 2020 #24

Navratilova is not a transgender. AFAIK dhol82 Feb 2020 #33

"Martina Navratilova does not believe transgender women should be able to compete against ciswomen." Jim__ Feb 2020 #37

Asshole comment🤬 we can do it Feb 2020 #80

Engage in real discussion, not snark, please elias7 Feb 2020 #176

If that's true... Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #23

Boom Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #28

Exactly. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #32

That's 100 percent ideology Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #27

Ummm, even medical transitioning PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #57

have you ever taken a biology class? Tumbulu Feb 2020 #74

Bathrooms yes. But if only social, hormones do provide advantage in sports. we can do it Feb 2020 #81

So, RobinA Feb 2020 #92

You're insane if you think that testosterone does not Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #110

I think the problem is largely ignorance than sanity jberryhill Feb 2020 #130

I am on my fifties, and today I can walk down into my basement Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #134

I don't think many people realize that even naturally high testosterone disqualifies women jberryhill Feb 2020 #137

All of the women who test unnaturally high janterry Feb 2020 #165

In international sports, testosterone limits are enforced jberryhill Feb 2020 #129

That is the dumbest damned thing ever posted on DU The Mouth Feb 2020 #184

This is a bullshit argument. eggplant Feb 2020 #36

I think that's a little naive. Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #44

Yes. Thank you for the reality check. nt pnwmom Feb 2020 #100

That's neither here nor there jberryhill Feb 2020 #163

Olympic athletes (who are often minors) have to test for androgens Mosby Feb 2020 #16

We're not talking about the olympics. killaphill Feb 2020 #17

I think that girls should compete with girls Mosby Feb 2020 #19

"I think that girls should compete with girls" killaphill Feb 2020 #22

I do. But when it comes to athletics biology has to be given precedence over gender roles. Mosby Feb 2020 #59

Have you ever TAKEN an anatomy class? Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #111

You have a good point, about the reverse. Croney Feb 2020 #39

Mack Beggs has won two state girls' championships in wrestling Mosby Feb 2020 #54

That's such a stupid situation. Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #56

I agree with you Mosby nt Tumbulu Feb 2020 #75

The stakes -- college scholarships -- are very high in high school. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #34

Yes, instead of a piece of metal on a ribbon, the stakes are much higher in high school jberryhill Feb 2020 #132

A "usually" or "often" in your post's title might be more accurate DonaldsRump Feb 2020 #181

There are plenty of high school athletes in the Olympics elias7 Feb 2020 #178

+1 Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #121

Respect for chosen roles is not giving them an auto leg up due to testosterone levels. lark Feb 2020 #155

bio males have well known physiolgical advantages nt msongs Feb 2020 #3

So do biological girls who are 6 feet tall vs. those who are 5'2" killaphill Feb 2020 #5

Male bodies have a set of characteristics that might give them an advantage, not just height. pnwmom Feb 2020 #6

Exactly cabot Feb 2020 #119

Are you comparing a statistical standard vs. a statistical aberration? LanternWaste Feb 2020 #7

I'm saying people are different killaphill Feb 2020 #10

If Randy Savage started to identify as female named Heather, christx30 Feb 2020 #145

5'-2" tall women golf champs routinely beat 6' tall women at140 Feb 2020 #78

First things first... Mike Nelson Feb 2020 #18

Do you think they should be able to play as girls without any hormone treatment? pnwmom Feb 2020 #20

So in other words killaphill Feb 2020 #25

That is indeed tough Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #30

Trans girls can always compete. pnwmom Feb 2020 #35

So if a cisgendered girl has a testosterone imbalance, she wouldn't be allowed to compete as a girl? eggplant Feb 2020 #38

A cis gendered girl still has the bone structure of a girl, which affects sports abilities, pnwmom Feb 2020 #45

the kind of imbalance you imagine janterry Feb 2020 #108

That's actually true, yes jberryhill Feb 2020 #135

No. You can play on the men's team. Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #112

I would look at each case... Mike Nelson Feb 2020 #29

But this is high school? The stakes in high school can be very high. pnwmom Feb 2020 #31

This has nothing to do with cis vs trans. eggplant Feb 2020 #40

No, the girl would have qualified if the two trans girls weren't in the race. She did better than pnwmom Feb 2020 #43

CIS women with high testosterone are ALSO banned from international competition jberryhill Feb 2020 #136

Move to another school I guess. Seems as if discrimination is at a stalemate on this one. YOHABLO Feb 2020 #26

It's not an issue of discrimination elias7 Feb 2020 #179

In my local area MenloParque Feb 2020 #41

Wow. I don't think it's fair that the girl had her scholarship revoked because of male students pnwmom Feb 2020 #46

We have to be ok with this MenloParque Feb 2020 #60

No we do not have to be OK with this at all Tumbulu Feb 2020 #76

I think I saw a South Park episode about this. eilen Feb 2020 #42

It appears they aren't on hormone therapy. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #47

Yeah, that is some straight up BS. nt eilen Feb 2020 #61

Brava! ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #83

+100 janterry Feb 2020 #109

Gender is no longer just male/female KayF Feb 2020 #49

Gender isn't an issue here--just sex. Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #52

Sex isn't binary Bradical79 Feb 2020 #189

A transgender league might work. But eliminating girls sports would be unfair to cis girls. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #63

A "Transgender" league? Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #126

Excluding them would be not letting them play at all ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #158

"Separate But Equal" has never actually been a good thing Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #168

I wasn't the one particularly advocating for that avenue to be clear ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #169

Are you sure? Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #170

Okay well that's a different story jberryhill Feb 2020 #171

So what? The issue is hormone levels - and those are applied neutrally in real sports jberryhill Feb 2020 #138

foolish argument in athletics evertonfc Feb 2020 #53

It will get more interesting when these transgender female track athletes ... JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2020 #55

That's an issue in this case. A cis girl was denied a place in an important competition pnwmom Feb 2020 #64

Hmmm. Maybe there could be transgender teams? PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #58

"Everyone competes together" would be the end of women's sports. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #65

Not necessarily. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #85

As long as college scholarships are tied to sports, self-refereeing won't be an option. pnwmom Feb 2020 #89

Right. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #106

Ah YES transgender teams, that is exactly what my 18 year old athlete just said ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #84

Thank you. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #87

They only make up .03 to .06% of the population JonLP24 Feb 2020 #113

So... make them invisible? ck4829 Feb 2020 #115

I don't understand the question JonLP24 Feb 2020 #117

If there are only four in the school, they aren't playing basketball jberryhill Feb 2020 #139

A trans girl who still has the hormones of a boy can still play with the boys. nt pnwmom Feb 2020 #157

I'm not sure what's fair as I am not an expert WestLosAngelesGal Feb 2020 #62

BRAVO!!!! jberryhill Feb 2020 #140

Make all high school sports unisex. Problem solved. nt kelly1mm Feb 2020 #66

How Would You Decide Who Gets To Play? -NT- jayfish Feb 2020 #68

Tryouts. nt kelly1mm Feb 2020 #86

So Little To No Female Representation In Sport? -NT- jayfish Feb 2020 #95

That seems to be the aim of some. Teams would be composed mostly pnwmom Feb 2020 #98

You might be able to do that at a private school... Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #70

Title IX wound need to repealed or amended Jose Garcia Feb 2020 #93

Backwards much? This is kind of how girls sports started in the first place. elias7 Feb 2020 #180

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2020 #67

Ya got me on this one! James48 Feb 2020 #69

I think they're right to sue. I hope they win. Captain Stern Feb 2020 #71

chromosomes should be the deciding facter questionseverything Feb 2020 #103

We might as well turn chromosomes into a new religion ck4829 Feb 2020 #116

That doesn't address hormonal levels jberryhill Feb 2020 #144

well, this is east germany situation. its unfair. pansypoo53219 Feb 2020 #72

For the record, I fully 1000% support trans-rights ... but I draw the line here ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #79

Very brave Dude! ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #88

Well to be honest.... killaphill Feb 2020 #91

If a trans girl still has a fully male body, and isn't taking hormones pnwmom Feb 2020 #102

If a cis girl is caught with excess male hormones in a drug test she would be disqualified in Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #94

Pro Cyling adopts new rules djg21 Feb 2020 #118

An emerging view seems to be.. jberryhill Feb 2020 #141

I agree. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the same standards as in the Olympics. nt pnwmom Feb 2020 #99

A backlash against Trans isn't being supportive of Trans rights JonLP24 Feb 2020 #105

High School Athletics shouldn't be compared to the Olympics Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #122

Correct, there is much less at stake in the Olympics jberryhill Feb 2020 #142

Nobody is guaranteed or entitled to a scholarship Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #147

Provided there is a reasonable framework for performance enhancing substances jberryhill Feb 2020 #151

In High School athletics though? Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #152

Yes jberryhill Feb 2020 #154

If my daughters were beat out by a transgender athlete I'd be pissed. WhoWoodaKnew Feb 2020 #97

Why? Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #123

During the steriod era we had whole generations of men and women who were cheated out of... WhoWoodaKnew Feb 2020 #182

I'd hope you'd study up on the rules first Bradical79 Feb 2020 #188

All this trans bashing is ugly JonLP24 Feb 2020 #104

Speak for yourself I'm seeing a lot of ugliness on this thread Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #124

I agree JonLP24 Feb 2020 #133

Do you think that women athletes should be disqualified for having high testosterone? jberryhill Feb 2020 #143

This has absolutely nothing to do with "doping" Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #146

Yes it does jberryhill Feb 2020 #149

That has nothing to do with this story involved here though Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #150

Lol! jberryhill Feb 2020 #153

I was in HS in the early 80's and everyone knew which dudes on the football team were on roids (nt) mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #156

I Don't Understand What Your Understanding Of HS Athletics Entails. jayfish Feb 2020 #160

I'm sorry for laughing jberryhill Feb 2020 #161

IOC Current rules have Trans-athletes at 2-3 times higher rates of testesterone janterry Feb 2020 #107

The Olympics are this summer, and some long standing Calista241 Feb 2020 #114

Unfortunately, I think that's what's going to have to happen. Captain Stern Feb 2020 #120

Trans women are women (not "males")/Trans men are men (not "female") Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #125

The problem is that people are confusing gender with sex Jose Garcia Feb 2020 #131

Yeah, that seems to be a big part of the problem Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #148

Ok. My point is the same. I'll reword my post. Captain Stern Feb 2020 #167

I agree, this is an issue that will animate the conversation janterry Feb 2020 #127

Megan Youngren set to be first openly transgender athlete to compete at U.S. Olympic marathon trials Baclava Feb 2020 #185

Good for her!! killaphill Feb 2020 #186

so 3x's the rate of testosterone that is normally found in a biological woman janterry Feb 2020 #190

Interesting pattyloutwo Feb 2020 #164

Heather Swanson! dogknob Feb 2020 #166

Post removed Post removed Feb 2020 #174

It concerns me that you should believe that canetoad Feb 2020 #175

+1000 janterry Feb 2020 #177

We had a bit of a flavor of this in a Jewish summer camp where I served on the Board MosheFeingold Feb 2020 #183

I wouldn't have a problem with requiring a certain hormone level for 2 years. Sophia_Of_PlanetX Feb 2020 #192

Competitive high school sports ought to be banned. hunter Feb 2020 #193