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Proud Liberal Dem

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148. Yeah, that seems to be a big part of the problem

Reply to Jose Garcia (Reply #131)

Thu Feb 13, 2020, 12:29 PM

Feb 2020

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Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes [View all] killaphill Feb 2020 OP

This is interesting. MontanaMama Feb 2020 #1

Interesting yet unfortunate killaphill Feb 2020 #2

I'm sorry, but that makes NO sense. alittlelark Feb 2020 #48

+ 1. nt iluvtennis Feb 2020 #50

Thank you.. whathehell Feb 2020 #51

agree Tumbulu Feb 2020 #73

Lots of opportunity in college/pro sports ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #82

+1 at140 Feb 2020 #77

False comparison Buzz cook Feb 2020 #90

And they have rules about it as well that include a minimum of a year taking female hormones. Tumbulu Feb 2020 #96

Except the trans athletes in this case aren't taking hormones. pnwmom Feb 2020 #101

There is no indication these athletes Buzz cook Feb 2020 #172

The trans girls not taking hormones is the basis of the cis girls' lawsuit. pnwmom Feb 2020 #173

The rules are a little more complicated than you imagine jberryhill Feb 2020 #128

If the transgender athletes SoCalNative Feb 2020 #159

Bingo jberryhill Feb 2020 #162

Transgender athletes would be competing post transition Bradical79 Feb 2020 #187

These athletes are not post-transition janterry Feb 2020 #191

The two trans athletes say they are "in the process of transitioning" but won't give details. pnwmom Feb 2020 #4

WTF are you talking about??? killaphill Feb 2020 #8

If they are only socially transitioning, and not medically transitioning, pnwmom Feb 2020 #9

There is no differentiation between "social" transitioning and "medical" transitioning killaphill Feb 2020 #11

Not according to Planned Parenthood. pnwmom Feb 2020 #12

Martina Navratilova, is that you? killaphill Feb 2020 #13

And this is from Trans Care at the University of California, San Francisco. pnwmom Feb 2020 #14

And this is the response from Transathlete killaphill Feb 2020 #15

Link? Both the NCAA and the Olympic Committee require hormone treatments for trans women pnwmom Feb 2020 #21

See below killaphill Feb 2020 #24

Navratilova is not a transgender. AFAIK dhol82 Feb 2020 #33

"Martina Navratilova does not believe transgender women should be able to compete against ciswomen." Jim__ Feb 2020 #37

Asshole comment🤬 we can do it Feb 2020 #80

Engage in real discussion, not snark, please elias7 Feb 2020 #176

If that's true... Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #23

Boom Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #28

Exactly. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #32

That's 100 percent ideology Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #27

Ummm, even medical transitioning PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #57

have you ever taken a biology class? Tumbulu Feb 2020 #74

Bathrooms yes. But if only social, hormones do provide advantage in sports. we can do it Feb 2020 #81

So, RobinA Feb 2020 #92

You're insane if you think that testosterone does not Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #110

I think the problem is largely ignorance than sanity jberryhill Feb 2020 #130

I am on my fifties, and today I can walk down into my basement Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #134

I don't think many people realize that even naturally high testosterone disqualifies women jberryhill Feb 2020 #137

All of the women who test unnaturally high janterry Feb 2020 #165

In international sports, testosterone limits are enforced jberryhill Feb 2020 #129

That is the dumbest damned thing ever posted on DU The Mouth Feb 2020 #184

This is a bullshit argument. eggplant Feb 2020 #36

I think that's a little naive. Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #44

Yes. Thank you for the reality check. nt pnwmom Feb 2020 #100

That's neither here nor there jberryhill Feb 2020 #163

Olympic athletes (who are often minors) have to test for androgens Mosby Feb 2020 #16

We're not talking about the olympics. killaphill Feb 2020 #17

I think that girls should compete with girls Mosby Feb 2020 #19

"I think that girls should compete with girls" killaphill Feb 2020 #22

I do. But when it comes to athletics biology has to be given precedence over gender roles. Mosby Feb 2020 #59

Have you ever TAKEN an anatomy class? Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #111

You have a good point, about the reverse. Croney Feb 2020 #39

Mack Beggs has won two state girls' championships in wrestling Mosby Feb 2020 #54

That's such a stupid situation. Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #56

I agree with you Mosby nt Tumbulu Feb 2020 #75

The stakes -- college scholarships -- are very high in high school. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #34

Yes, instead of a piece of metal on a ribbon, the stakes are much higher in high school jberryhill Feb 2020 #132

A "usually" or "often" in your post's title might be more accurate DonaldsRump Feb 2020 #181

There are plenty of high school athletes in the Olympics elias7 Feb 2020 #178

+1 Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #121

Respect for chosen roles is not giving them an auto leg up due to testosterone levels. lark Feb 2020 #155

bio males have well known physiolgical advantages nt msongs Feb 2020 #3

So do biological girls who are 6 feet tall vs. those who are 5'2" killaphill Feb 2020 #5

Male bodies have a set of characteristics that might give them an advantage, not just height. pnwmom Feb 2020 #6

Exactly cabot Feb 2020 #119

Are you comparing a statistical standard vs. a statistical aberration? LanternWaste Feb 2020 #7

I'm saying people are different killaphill Feb 2020 #10

If Randy Savage started to identify as female named Heather, christx30 Feb 2020 #145

5'-2" tall women golf champs routinely beat 6' tall women at140 Feb 2020 #78

First things first... Mike Nelson Feb 2020 #18

Do you think they should be able to play as girls without any hormone treatment? pnwmom Feb 2020 #20

So in other words killaphill Feb 2020 #25

That is indeed tough Loki Liesmith Feb 2020 #30

Trans girls can always compete. pnwmom Feb 2020 #35

So if a cisgendered girl has a testosterone imbalance, she wouldn't be allowed to compete as a girl? eggplant Feb 2020 #38

A cis gendered girl still has the bone structure of a girl, which affects sports abilities, pnwmom Feb 2020 #45

the kind of imbalance you imagine janterry Feb 2020 #108

That's actually true, yes jberryhill Feb 2020 #135

No. You can play on the men's team. Drahthaardogs Feb 2020 #112

I would look at each case... Mike Nelson Feb 2020 #29

But this is high school? The stakes in high school can be very high. pnwmom Feb 2020 #31

This has nothing to do with cis vs trans. eggplant Feb 2020 #40

No, the girl would have qualified if the two trans girls weren't in the race. She did better than pnwmom Feb 2020 #43

CIS women with high testosterone are ALSO banned from international competition jberryhill Feb 2020 #136

Move to another school I guess. Seems as if discrimination is at a stalemate on this one. YOHABLO Feb 2020 #26

It's not an issue of discrimination elias7 Feb 2020 #179

In my local area MenloParque Feb 2020 #41

Wow. I don't think it's fair that the girl had her scholarship revoked because of male students pnwmom Feb 2020 #46

We have to be ok with this MenloParque Feb 2020 #60

No we do not have to be OK with this at all Tumbulu Feb 2020 #76

I think I saw a South Park episode about this. eilen Feb 2020 #42

It appears they aren't on hormone therapy. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #47

Yeah, that is some straight up BS. nt eilen Feb 2020 #61

Brava! ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #83

+100 janterry Feb 2020 #109

Gender is no longer just male/female KayF Feb 2020 #49

Gender isn't an issue here--just sex. Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #52

Sex isn't binary Bradical79 Feb 2020 #189

A transgender league might work. But eliminating girls sports would be unfair to cis girls. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #63

A "Transgender" league? Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #126

Excluding them would be not letting them play at all ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #158

"Separate But Equal" has never actually been a good thing Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #168

I wasn't the one particularly advocating for that avenue to be clear ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #169

Are you sure? Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #170

Okay well that's a different story jberryhill Feb 2020 #171

So what? The issue is hormone levels - and those are applied neutrally in real sports jberryhill Feb 2020 #138

foolish argument in athletics evertonfc Feb 2020 #53

It will get more interesting when these transgender female track athletes ... JustABozoOnThisBus Feb 2020 #55

That's an issue in this case. A cis girl was denied a place in an important competition pnwmom Feb 2020 #64

Hmmm. Maybe there could be transgender teams? PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #58

"Everyone competes together" would be the end of women's sports. n/t pnwmom Feb 2020 #65

Not necessarily. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #85

As long as college scholarships are tied to sports, self-refereeing won't be an option. pnwmom Feb 2020 #89

Right. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #106

Ah YES transgender teams, that is exactly what my 18 year old athlete just said ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #84

Thank you. PoindexterOglethorpe Feb 2020 #87

They only make up .03 to .06% of the population JonLP24 Feb 2020 #113

So... make them invisible? ck4829 Feb 2020 #115

I don't understand the question JonLP24 Feb 2020 #117

If there are only four in the school, they aren't playing basketball jberryhill Feb 2020 #139

A trans girl who still has the hormones of a boy can still play with the boys. nt pnwmom Feb 2020 #157

I'm not sure what's fair as I am not an expert WestLosAngelesGal Feb 2020 #62

BRAVO!!!! jberryhill Feb 2020 #140

Make all high school sports unisex. Problem solved. nt kelly1mm Feb 2020 #66

How Would You Decide Who Gets To Play? -NT- jayfish Feb 2020 #68

Tryouts. nt kelly1mm Feb 2020 #86

So Little To No Female Representation In Sport? -NT- jayfish Feb 2020 #95

That seems to be the aim of some. Teams would be composed mostly pnwmom Feb 2020 #98

You might be able to do that at a private school... Dr. Strange Feb 2020 #70

Title IX wound need to repealed or amended Jose Garcia Feb 2020 #93

Backwards much? This is kind of how girls sports started in the first place. elias7 Feb 2020 #180

Message auto-removed Name removed Feb 2020 #67

Ya got me on this one! James48 Feb 2020 #69

I think they're right to sue. I hope they win. Captain Stern Feb 2020 #71

chromosomes should be the deciding facter questionseverything Feb 2020 #103

We might as well turn chromosomes into a new religion ck4829 Feb 2020 #116

That doesn't address hormonal levels jberryhill Feb 2020 #144

well, this is east germany situation. its unfair. pansypoo53219 Feb 2020 #72

For the record, I fully 1000% support trans-rights ... but I draw the line here ... mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #79

Very brave Dude! ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #88

Well to be honest.... killaphill Feb 2020 #91

If a trans girl still has a fully male body, and isn't taking hormones pnwmom Feb 2020 #102

If a cis girl is caught with excess male hormones in a drug test she would be disqualified in Farmer-Rick Feb 2020 #94

Pro Cyling adopts new rules djg21 Feb 2020 #118

An emerging view seems to be.. jberryhill Feb 2020 #141

I agree. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the same standards as in the Olympics. nt pnwmom Feb 2020 #99

A backlash against Trans isn't being supportive of Trans rights JonLP24 Feb 2020 #105

High School Athletics shouldn't be compared to the Olympics Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #122

Correct, there is much less at stake in the Olympics jberryhill Feb 2020 #142

Nobody is guaranteed or entitled to a scholarship Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #147

Provided there is a reasonable framework for performance enhancing substances jberryhill Feb 2020 #151

In High School athletics though? Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #152

Yes jberryhill Feb 2020 #154

If my daughters were beat out by a transgender athlete I'd be pissed. WhoWoodaKnew Feb 2020 #97

Why? Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #123

During the steriod era we had whole generations of men and women who were cheated out of... WhoWoodaKnew Feb 2020 #182

I'd hope you'd study up on the rules first Bradical79 Feb 2020 #188

All this trans bashing is ugly JonLP24 Feb 2020 #104

Speak for yourself I'm seeing a lot of ugliness on this thread Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #124

I agree JonLP24 Feb 2020 #133

Do you think that women athletes should be disqualified for having high testosterone? jberryhill Feb 2020 #143

This has absolutely nothing to do with "doping" Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #146

Yes it does jberryhill Feb 2020 #149

That has nothing to do with this story involved here though Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #150

Lol! jberryhill Feb 2020 #153

I was in HS in the early 80's and everyone knew which dudes on the football team were on roids (nt) mr_lebowski Feb 2020 #156

I Don't Understand What Your Understanding Of HS Athletics Entails. jayfish Feb 2020 #160

I'm sorry for laughing jberryhill Feb 2020 #161

IOC Current rules have Trans-athletes at 2-3 times higher rates of testesterone janterry Feb 2020 #107

The Olympics are this summer, and some long standing Calista241 Feb 2020 #114

Unfortunately, I think that's what's going to have to happen. Captain Stern Feb 2020 #120

Trans women are women (not "males")/Trans men are men (not "female") Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #125

The problem is that people are confusing gender with sex Jose Garcia Feb 2020 #131

Yeah, that seems to be a big part of the problem Proud Liberal Dem Feb 2020 #148

Ok. My point is the same. I'll reword my post. Captain Stern Feb 2020 #167

I agree, this is an issue that will animate the conversation janterry Feb 2020 #127

Megan Youngren set to be first openly transgender athlete to compete at U.S. Olympic marathon trials Baclava Feb 2020 #185

Good for her!! killaphill Feb 2020 #186

so 3x's the rate of testosterone that is normally found in a biological woman janterry Feb 2020 #190

Interesting pattyloutwo Feb 2020 #164

Heather Swanson! dogknob Feb 2020 #166

Post removed Post removed Feb 2020 #174

It concerns me that you should believe that canetoad Feb 2020 #175

+1000 janterry Feb 2020 #177

We had a bit of a flavor of this in a Jewish summer camp where I served on the Board MosheFeingold Feb 2020 #183

I wouldn't have a problem with requiring a certain hormone level for 2 years. Sophia_Of_PlanetX Feb 2020 #192

Competitive high school sports ought to be banned. hunter Feb 2020 #193