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In reply to the discussion: Girls sue to block participation of transgender athletes [View all]jberryhill
(62,444 posts)171. Okay well that's a different story
If you want to eliminate separate but equal the entire problem arises from defining a category of womens competition and trying to nearly fit people into that category with an objective rule.
Attempts to neatly divide persons into binary gender classifications will never succeed on some absolute basis.
However, for purposes of athletic competition, testosterone is a performance enhancing substance in many sports. That advantage could be eliminated by, for example, coming up with different sports in which that is not so. But in the sports we generally recognize, it is an undeniable fact that if you do not draw a line on hormone levels, then persons with highly elevated testosterone will win.
Get rid of separate but equal womens sports, just have sports, and be done, is an entirely different conversation. There will be some remaining sports in which cis women will dominate, which is why in gymnastics, for example, men and women dont do the same things.
But if your objection is to separate but equal you could have saved a lot of time in this thread by simply saying your opinion is to eliminate womens sports.
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And they have rules about it as well that include a minimum of a year taking female hormones.
Tumbulu
Feb 2020
#96
The two trans athletes say they are "in the process of transitioning" but won't give details.
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#4
There is no differentiation between "social" transitioning and "medical" transitioning
killaphill
Feb 2020
#11
Link? Both the NCAA and the Olympic Committee require hormone treatments for trans women
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#21
"Martina Navratilova does not believe transgender women should be able to compete against ciswomen."
Jim__
Feb 2020
#37
Bathrooms yes. But if only social, hormones do provide advantage in sports.
we can do it
Feb 2020
#81
I don't think many people realize that even naturally high testosterone disqualifies women
jberryhill
Feb 2020
#137
I do. But when it comes to athletics biology has to be given precedence over gender roles.
Mosby
Feb 2020
#59
Yes, instead of a piece of metal on a ribbon, the stakes are much higher in high school
jberryhill
Feb 2020
#132
Respect for chosen roles is not giving them an auto leg up due to testosterone levels.
lark
Feb 2020
#155
Male bodies have a set of characteristics that might give them an advantage, not just height.
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#6
Do you think they should be able to play as girls without any hormone treatment?
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#20
So if a cisgendered girl has a testosterone imbalance, she wouldn't be allowed to compete as a girl?
eggplant
Feb 2020
#38
A cis gendered girl still has the bone structure of a girl, which affects sports abilities,
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#45
No, the girl would have qualified if the two trans girls weren't in the race. She did better than
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#43
CIS women with high testosterone are ALSO banned from international competition
jberryhill
Feb 2020
#136
Move to another school I guess. Seems as if discrimination is at a stalemate on this one.
YOHABLO
Feb 2020
#26
Wow. I don't think it's fair that the girl had her scholarship revoked because of male students
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#46
A transgender league might work. But eliminating girls sports would be unfair to cis girls. n/t
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#63
So what? The issue is hormone levels - and those are applied neutrally in real sports
jberryhill
Feb 2020
#138
It will get more interesting when these transgender female track athletes ...
JustABozoOnThisBus
Feb 2020
#55
That's an issue in this case. A cis girl was denied a place in an important competition
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#64
As long as college scholarships are tied to sports, self-refereeing won't be an option.
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#89
Ah YES transgender teams, that is exactly what my 18 year old athlete just said
ChubbyStar
Feb 2020
#84
A trans girl who still has the hormones of a boy can still play with the boys. nt
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#157
For the record, I fully 1000% support trans-rights ... but I draw the line here ...
mr_lebowski
Feb 2020
#79
If a cis girl is caught with excess male hormones in a drug test she would be disqualified in
Farmer-Rick
Feb 2020
#94
I agree. It doesn't seem unreasonable to use the same standards as in the Olympics. nt
pnwmom
Feb 2020
#99
Provided there is a reasonable framework for performance enhancing substances
jberryhill
Feb 2020
#151
During the steriod era we had whole generations of men and women who were cheated out of...
WhoWoodaKnew
Feb 2020
#182
Do you think that women athletes should be disqualified for having high testosterone?
jberryhill
Feb 2020
#143
I was in HS in the early 80's and everyone knew which dudes on the football team were on roids (nt)
mr_lebowski
Feb 2020
#156
IOC Current rules have Trans-athletes at 2-3 times higher rates of testesterone
janterry
Feb 2020
#107
Trans women are women (not "males")/Trans men are men (not "female")
Proud Liberal Dem
Feb 2020
#125
Megan Youngren set to be first openly transgender athlete to compete at U.S. Olympic marathon trials
Baclava
Feb 2020
#185
so 3x's the rate of testosterone that is normally found in a biological woman
janterry
Feb 2020
#190
We had a bit of a flavor of this in a Jewish summer camp where I served on the Board
MosheFeingold
Feb 2020
#183
I wouldn't have a problem with requiring a certain hormone level for 2 years.
Sophia_Of_PlanetX
Feb 2020
#192