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HughBeaumont

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76. If recent history is any indicator, I'm not optimistic our requests are going to be met.

Thu Sep 27, 2012, 02:18 PM

Sep 2012

Millions demonstrated against the Iraq war, in 2003 and constantly after that. The War Criminal Administration and their rubberstamp congress pretty much gave the world a giant oily middle finger on their cries for peace.

OWS gathers daily and fights the good fight. Banksters give a diamond-encrusted middle finger to America because they have the government in their pockets and the militarized police on their side.

I haven't seen much in the way of any demonstrations for Single Payer, and there really needs to be. I thought Sicko would be the catalyst for a groundswell, but it was not to be.

Like it was said upthread . . . the only, and I mean ONLY hope of single payer happening is a Democratically-controlled House, Senate and Presidency (with more emphasis on progressive to center-left Democrats, not more Ben Nelsons and Mary Landreius). If any of those elements are missing or are in danger of being lost, forget it.

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Report: Sears To Offer Cash Rather Than Health Insurance Plans [View all] Newsjock Sep 2012 OP

and that fixed amount of money probably will not grow even as health insurance rate go up. antigop Sep 2012 #1

It is essentially the voucher system dixiegrrrrl Sep 2012 #4

yep. that's exactly what it is...and the company decides how big that voucher is n/t antigop Sep 2012 #6

and unless the employees belong to a union, they have no control over the amount n/t antigop Sep 2012 #7

They vote with their feet. Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2012 #101

the article said other companies will be watching..and if they all do it, where are you going to go? antigop Sep 2012 #103

just like companies shifting their pension plans to 401(k)'s... n/t antigop Sep 2012 #104

That's exactly right. hamsterjill Sep 2012 #37

IMO it should be either on the employee or the Government, but it sure should not be required of the Bandit Sep 2012 #15

especially when the companies see health care as an expense they want to minimize n/t antigop Sep 2012 #16

It's not Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #56

I agree. harmonicon Sep 2012 #73

this is one of the outcomes of the ACA that I feared might happen.... mike_c Sep 2012 #2

not directly tied to the PPACA according to WSJ antigop Sep 2012 #3

While that may not be stated, its going to be the latest trend. riderinthestorm Sep 2012 #12

Agreed, 100%. nt magical thyme Sep 2012 #75

one way to look at it but.. BREMPRO Sep 2012 #8

I think there is merit to your remarks. I think part of the problem people had with single payer... antigop Sep 2012 #9

Yep, I consider it a form of wage slavery tavalon Sep 2012 #95

Single Payer Now is right. We first need a Dem House, Senate, and Prez. Only then do we valerief Sep 2012 #14

I agree...now is the right time...but will the Dems have the backbone to stand up to the insurance antigop Sep 2012 #17

Who knows? But it's a guaranteed NO without the Dem trio. nt valerief Sep 2012 #18

History shows that it's a likely NO with "the Dem trio." harmonicon Sep 2012 #74

Conyers' Medicare for All was introduced in 2003 and again in 2009. valerief Sep 2012 #85

The problem isn't DINOs its Ds. harmonicon Sep 2012 #86

Remember what happened to Hillary right after Bill's initial election? cr8tvlde Sep 2012 #89

All in good time. Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #59

The Sears in our area is "closing" the salesperson told me goclark Sep 2012 #5

Why should ANY employer provide ANY health insurance? BlueStreak Sep 2012 #10

agreed...but maybe this is moving in the right direction... n.t antigop Sep 2012 #11

Where are you getting that health insurance is a result of pay caps during the war? Hassin Bin Sober Sep 2012 #21

Here.... antigop Sep 2012 #22

Which doesn't explain why it continued after the war. In fact, it was a way to compete for HiPointDem Sep 2012 #97

True, but my point remains BlueStreak Sep 2012 #99

I agree universal coverage is optimal. But it was no less optimal then. Employer health care was HiPointDem Sep 2012 #105

With Single Payer, healthcare is not tied to a specific employer radhika Sep 2012 #13

a thought as to why employers (especially large companies) didn't push for single-payer antigop Sep 2012 #20

It certainly gives leverage to large corporations BlueStreak Sep 2012 #31

most (if not all) large employers are self-insured. Only use ins cos for billing and admin. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #34

Employer self-insurance rates are up 15% - you are correct.... radhika Sep 2012 #62

thanks, radhika n/t antigop Sep 2012 #68

Interesting. And I would guess there are hybrid plans (i.e. reinsurance) BlueStreak Sep 2012 #78

Absolutely, reinsurance is even used by health plans.... radhika Sep 2012 #81

What is the big deal, this process has been around for a while mangermerdeRWfreaks Sep 2012 #19

Republicans should love it....it's a voucher plan n/t antigop Sep 2012 #23

Vouchers were not mentioned in the article mangermerdeRWfreaks Sep 2012 #27

the employees will be given a fixed amount of money ...just like a voucher. antigop Sep 2012 #30

That is a DEFINED Benifit Plan not a Voucher Plan mangermerdeRWfreaks Sep 2012 #45

No, it's a DEFINED CONTRIBUTION plan...company only gives fixed amount... antigop Sep 2012 #51

just like paul ryans DEFINED CONTRIBUTION plan. paul ryan only gives fixed amount leftyohiolib Sep 2012 #53

yes...that's EXACTLY what it is. The "fixed amount of money" is your voucher. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #58

defined contribution health plan... antigop Sep 2012 #57

How "great" it is depends entirely on how much money is offered (and how much of that is taxed) highplainsdem Sep 2012 #25

one very frightening statement from the WSJ article antigop Sep 2012 #29

These are also called cafeteria plans in some places mangermerdeRWfreaks Sep 2012 #39

FYI...most large employers today are self-insured. Ins cos used for billing and admin only. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #40

Self Insured Plans Suck mangermerdeRWfreaks Sep 2012 #47

self-insured plans are like single-payer -- no insurance company for underwriting. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #48

I beg to differ mangermerdeRWfreaks Sep 2012 #49

It's like single payer that it gets the ins cos out of the underwriting. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #52

definition: self-insured plans antigop Sep 2012 #54

the reason large cos go self-insured is BECAUSE IT'S CHEAPER. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #55

Well my plan was tiered by salery mangermerdeRWfreaks Sep 2012 #32

Everyone doesn't like cafeteria benefits. Lasher Sep 2012 #38

the only thing you will eventually be able to buy is a (very) high-deductible plan. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #42

but Republicans love "consumer-driven" health plans n/t antigop Sep 2012 #44

Of couse you do. It's a wonderful way for the healthy majority to fuck over sick people eridani Sep 2012 #98

Sears has long been a horrific employer. This may be their death knell kysrsoze Sep 2012 #24

Sears current management could fuck up toast. n./t Mopar151 Sep 2012 #41

Wonder how much cash they will give when a person has a $100,000 bill for cancer treatment? Lint Head Sep 2012 #26

I don't have a big problem with this matt819 Sep 2012 #28

I just sent this to a Repub friend who gets his health care from his wife who works at Sears. PuppyBismark Sep 2012 #33

well...he should love it. It's the Republican "consumer-driven" health plan. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #35

If not, he'll blame it on Obama Shitty Mitty Sep 2012 #79

Our companies will never be competitive in a global market if they keep paying health care. Exultant Democracy Sep 2012 #36

Wanna bet it isn't nearly $15K/yr needed to pay for a family plan? leveymg Sep 2012 #43

and wanna bet the fixed amount of money won't be anywhere near $15k for family coverage? n/t antigop Sep 2012 #46

There are very few -- if any companies -- paying $15K a year for employee's families. Hoyt Sep 2012 #63

Right now employers cut back their premium share, increase deductibles/coinsurance, etc. Hoyt Sep 2012 #50

Sick employees too ? Raggaemon Sep 2012 #60

If it occurs in 2014 -- Obamacare to the rescue with no "pre-existing" exclusions. Hoyt Sep 2012 #61

I'm not so sure about that...see post #3 antigop Sep 2012 #66

Very good questions...there will probably different tiers of coverage antigop Sep 2012 #64

Yesterday I saw an article Sekhmets Daughter Sep 2012 #65

Lots of optimists on here. HughBeaumont Sep 2012 #67

Hugh, I think in a rather disastrous way, it can lead to single-payer because antigop Sep 2012 #69

If recent history is any indicator, I'm not optimistic our requests are going to be met. HughBeaumont Sep 2012 #76

I don't think enough people have been hurt enough yet by today's health care system. antigop Sep 2012 #83

We have the additional factor of the health care time bomb... CBHagman Sep 2012 #102

Should we have a payroll tax exboyfil Sep 2012 #70

seems like a great opening for unions. just allow people to join and access okieinpain Sep 2012 #71

This would this help portability. julian09 Sep 2012 #82

The problem is these workers were probably in self-insured plans and now have to move to the open antigop Sep 2012 #84

I smell Republican Ass rock Sep 2012 #72

You have my sympathies. Shitty Mitty Sep 2012 #80

Thx but what is one to do rock Sep 2012 #87

Oh, nothing to see here...move along. So sayeth the people with insurance. Safetykitten Sep 2012 #77

One word - mysuzuki2 Sep 2012 #88

You posted two words. antigop Sep 2012 #90

no sense being picky. But single payer is the obvious way to go! mysuzuki2 Sep 2012 #91

Yes, as I said, I agree with you. n/t antigop Sep 2012 #92

They have a lot of inventory backed-up in the warehouses too, I imagine...... DeSwiss Sep 2012 #93

state by state greymattermom Sep 2012 #94

Health care vouchers, one of the GOP's wet dreams. HiPointDem Sep 2012 #96

My brother's company is currently studying where to go with their health care benefits madville Sep 2012 #100