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Wistful Vista

(136 posts)

127. Well, that is wonderful. Because no bad guy would ever ignore that rule.

Tue Jan 17, 2012, 06:16 PM

Jan 2012

I really don't understand the mindset that makes people think a sign will stop someone bent on mayhem or murder...can you explain that?

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Should guns be banned in hospitals? [View all] Judi Lynn Jan 2012 OP

In answer to your question. jonthebru Jan 2012 #1

Should this even be a question? Good lord.... likesmountains 52 Jan 2012 #2

EXACTLY!!! elleng Jan 2012 #158

I'm with Linda Quick... Suich Jan 2012 #3

ALZ patient in possession...omg.. prismpalette Jan 2012 #91

Quick, call the NRA! They have a solution for this head shot wound! CTyankee Jan 2012 #303

Sure - as long as they can somehow guarantee one will never be needed there. dmallind Jan 2012 #4

Right, because you just never know... primavera Jan 2012 #279

Yep that's right dmallind Jan 2012 #281

Kind of makes you wish... primavera Jan 2012 #283

Yep - but how do you prevent wackos from getting them dmallind Jan 2012 #285

Strawman primavera Jan 2012 #286

A few things.... PavePusher Jan 2012 #287

... and a few responses primavera Jan 2012 #288

...and counter-response. 8>) PavePusher Jan 2012 #289

Agree to disagree primavera Jan 2012 #291

That straw man has a strange ability to shoot at people it seems dmallind Jan 2012 #292

It is impossible to keep guns entirely out of the hands of wackos primavera Jan 2012 #294

Another Strawman: PavePusher Jan 2012 #295

Ah yes, name calling primavera Jan 2012 #296

Name calling? Where? I identified your accusation for what it is: A Strawman. No name calling. PavePusher Jan 2012 #297

I see primavera Jan 2012 #298

Now you've termed disagreement and debate as "spoiling for a fight"? PavePusher Jan 2012 #299

They have anesthesia now Kolesar Jan 2012 #280

Only if it applies to cops and they have metal detectors.. Monty22001 Jan 2012 #5

I agree. Lasher Jan 2012 #29

A CCW permit holder should be able to carry a gun anywhere a cop can. AlbertCat Jan 2012 #71

Are CCW permit holders less trustworthy than cops? Lasher Jan 2012 #76

Actually CCW permit holders are slightly more likely than police to commit crimes. boppers Jan 2012 #210

I went to the website you linked but I was unable to find anything that supports your assertion. Lasher Jan 2012 #213

Yeah, I was just amused by the data. It was slim (CCW vs. LEO), but couldn't find it again. boppers Jan 2012 #219

Here's a graphical representation.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #224

I can't argue with that, Boppers, some CCW permit holders do commit crimes. Lasher Jan 2012 #227

Perhaps you should ask some cops how much training they actually get. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #80

Oh, yes. NRA talking point #23490: The average CCW holder has MUCH more proficiency with a firearm! Missy Vixen Jan 2012 #214

Actually, a CCW permit holder helped restrain Loughner. Lasher Jan 2012 #222

So, Zamudo's gun was pointless. boppers Jan 2012 #223

OK, for the sake of argument I'll agree for a moment that his gun was pointless. Lasher Jan 2012 #228

His reaction was false heroism. boppers Jan 2012 #244

All of our military service men and women are armed with weapons. Lasher Jan 2012 #245

Check their firing rate. boppers Jan 2012 #246

And neither does it make a person a coward, as you clearly claimed. Lasher Jan 2012 #247

This message was self-deleted by its author boppers Jan 2012 #248

Well, that wasn't my claim. boppers Jan 2012 #251

Yes, it certainly was your claim. Lasher Jan 2012 #253

...and: boppers Jan 2012 #258

That is some interesting kinda 'logic' right there. Lasher Jan 2012 #259

they are also "licensed" or other wise permitted by the government to carry weapons. CTyankee Jan 2012 #302

Yes, they have permission to carry firearms, just like Joe Zamudio does. Lasher Jan 2012 #304

Do police have some mythical skill with guns that the common Citizen does not? PavePusher Jan 2012 #93

"Or do you think cops are just handed a uniform after the gun training and let on the street? " atreides1 Jan 2012 #128

I Work RobinA Jan 2012 #105

Are there metal detectors? Lasher Jan 2012 #115

Well, that is wonderful. Because no bad guy would ever ignore that rule. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #127

me too irisblue Jan 2012 #282

Are you a CCW permit holder? Do you carry your gun to hospitals, churches, preschools, etc? rbixby Jan 2012 #116

Yes, I am a CCW permit holder. Lasher Jan 2012 #118

And it would be necessary and safe to bring one to say, a preschool? rbixby Jan 2012 #123

A preschool would be safer with me there with my gun than it would be otherwise. Lasher Jan 2012 #132

Let me help you here... Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #144

Wikipedia's value cannot be overstated. Lasher Jan 2012 #149

Okay, fine...here's what Oxford says Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #154

I imagine we often trivialize or minimize those sources... LanternWaste Jan 2012 #231

If not carried with criminal intent, nothing particularly unsafe about it. PavePusher Jan 2012 #178

I just don't see the need rbixby Jan 2012 #202

Simply put, you are projecting your assumed impulse control issues on others... PavePusher Jan 2012 #203

I agree that you're well within your rights rbixby Jan 2012 #204

I have no need to kill anyone. I have the need to defend myself. PavePusher Jan 2012 #205

My favorite example Missy Vixen Jan 2012 #215

Not having any real substantial position on the overall issue, I will add that... LanternWaste Jan 2012 #232

If you're refering to the Hemenway "study", it's been pretty thoroughly demolished via peer review. PavePusher Jan 2012 #275

It's tragedy too late when it happens Politicalboi Jan 2012 #6

Will the converse be true as well? PavePusher Jan 2012 #206

Is this a trick question? yellerpup Jan 2012 #7

That's just crazy talk. onehandle Jan 2012 #8

You consider everyone in the hospital Monty22001 Jan 2012 #9

Combining "common sense" and "logic" with "guns" and "Florida" will always get you truthisfreedom Jan 2012 #10

LOL! You got that right! nt zanana1 Jan 2012 #40

Combining "common sense" and "logic" with "guns" and "Florida" will always get you AlbertCat Jan 2012 #66

Regional bigotry sure is popular on D.U. PavePusher Jan 2012 #94

Uh.... Doc Holliday Jan 2012 #278

"Maybe they should HAND OUT guns as you enter the hospital to make sure everyone is safe!" KansDem Jan 2012 #100

Thanks for digging this up! Sera_Bellum Jan 2012 #125

Heartbreaking when you remember Hugh O'Connor died by self-inflicted gun shot tpsbmam Jan 2012 #129

You open another can of worms. Lasher Jan 2012 #136

I've stopped MANY people from committing suicide who later were very happy I did..... tpsbmam Jan 2012 #146

+1 harun Jan 2012 #73

reccomend madrchsod Jan 2012 #81

Or lower rates of gun violence in the case of Florida. hack89 Jan 2012 #113

I think a privately-owned institution of any sort ought to be able to ban petronius Jan 2012 #11

Most conservatives resent the federal gov't. telling them what to do. zanana1 Jan 2012 #41

What about publicly owned hospitals ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #53

In general, I oppose the relevant government banning an otherwise legal activity petronius Jan 2012 #101

No, guns shouldnt be banned cstanleytech Jan 2012 #12

Don't forget patients having MRI's Lost-in-FL Jan 2012 #13

They can have the Glock 7 Monty22001 Jan 2012 #15

Only if they plan to take over the airport and use the hospital to override the tower Kennah Jan 2012 #20

Yes but do they have the ability to land ponys from the hospital? cstanleytech Jan 2012 #21

Glad someone got the joke.. Monty22001 Jan 2012 #38

Of course there's no metal in it. AtheistCrusader Jan 2012 #32

In case some person unfamiliar with fireams reads your post... spin Jan 2012 #86

You wouldn't be... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #179

I like facts better than fantasy... spin Jan 2012 #187

Well then... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #194

In Florida in order to legally carry a firearm in a hospital you would have to have... spin Jan 2012 #14

Those are the "official" laws. zanana1 Jan 2012 #42

There you go, injecting troublesome FACTS into a discussion about guns. baldguy Jan 2012 #45

That "fact" was already conceded by the previous poster joeglow3 Jan 2012 #117

Do you have some statistics from the FBI or DOJ Lurks Often Jan 2012 #49

Is there any other kind of law? Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #54

And they matter and are enforced. ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #55

Cite, please. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #60

Very true. Criminals do break the law all the time... spin Jan 2012 #82

What makes you think that someone who would flout the law and carry without a permit.. X_Digger Jan 2012 #85

You seem to allude to "unofficial" laws. PavePusher Jan 2012 #95

Since you are talking about criminals, why do you think more laws will stop criminals? nt hack89 Jan 2012 #114

re: <Those are the "official" laws.> discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #182

What could possibly go wrong? grantcart Jan 2012 #16

Were guns allowed there? Monty22001 Jan 2012 #17

Compliance on any desired behavior increases when codified into law. mbperrin Jan 2012 #19

So.. Monty22001 Jan 2012 #23

Let's just burn the colleges down, then. mbperrin Jan 2012 #140

So we need more rules Monty22001 Jan 2012 #151

You're talking correlation, not causation. mbperrin Jan 2012 #159

And what remedy do you propose for those law-abiding people.... PavePusher Jan 2012 #61

Thought you didn't like hyperbole? mbperrin Jan 2012 #141

Hyperbole on my part? No, fact. PavePusher Jan 2012 #155

Virginia Tech was not disarmed. Police had lots of guns. mbperrin Jan 2012 #160

Those trapped students waiting to die were disarmed. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #163

Nice defelction-fail. Try... again. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #168

Nice non-response. No need to try anything at all. mbperrin Jan 2012 #188

I'm not the one who turned to irrelevencies.... speaking of "no interest in an actual discussion"... PavePusher Jan 2012 #197

Well that certainly explains why nobody smokes pot in this law-abiding nation. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #79

Usage would increase with legalization. Yes? mbperrin Jan 2012 #143

I don't know, my Magic Eight Ball got broken years ago. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #145

Well, murder didn't stop, and not everybody got murdered. boppers Jan 2012 #211

No and he wasn't allowed to be there but he he easily got access to a gun and took it where grantcart Jan 2012 #26

It doesn't, and nobody suggested that it does. You introduced this murderer petronius Jan 2012 #30

I simply put it in because somebody up thread had indicated that there were no real instances of grantcart Jan 2012 #104

Trying to prevent it is what baffles me. If you know how to keep thugs with mayhem in mind from Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #147

Well think about it.. Monty22001 Jan 2012 #48

What defensive measures do you propose to insure the safety of those you would disarm? PavePusher Jan 2012 #62

None grantcart Jan 2012 #106

No-one has claimed they are "necessary". PavePusher Jan 2012 #111

Fascinating that you want to increase the pool of targets for criminals. PavePusher Jan 2012 #199

If only hospitals had knives of some kind, or maybe some sedatives, or restraints.... boppers Jan 2012 #212

If someone is trying to stab or shoot me, in a hospital.... PavePusher Jan 2012 #225

How many gunshot wounds do you have? boppers Jan 2012 #243

Relevence? n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #249

The relevance is how much you have spent on Tiger repellent. boppers Jan 2012 #250

Defaulting to freedom of choice is not "subjecting" anyone to anything. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #169

Don't worry, Monty. zanana1 Jan 2012 #43

It's likely it was already illegal for this person to do what he did. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #56

And a law would have stopped this crime? Really? nt hack89 Jan 2012 #108

FFS, yes. My second choice is to make it mandatory for every man, woman, child, patient, cleric, doc mbperrin Jan 2012 #18

Kennesaw, Georgia illegal to not own a gun. E6-B Jan 2012 #28

They have no problems. AlbertCat Jan 2012 #67

So, cite the "problems". We'll wait.... n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #170

So, nothing, eh? Figures... n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #226

Not really accurate. According to this, they're safer than 35% of cities. That means mbperrin Jan 2012 #139

Good evening, friend. discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #185

That's not what it means, and that's not what it says. mbperrin Jan 2012 #189

In reply discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #193

See post 28 at the top of this thread. The stance you're defending is that Kennesaw has NO problems. mbperrin Jan 2012 #195

Regardless... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #200

Oooooo, hyperbole. That's effective.... when you're nine years old. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #63

Just curious: Why is the OP not in Guns Group? nt SteveW Jan 2012 #264

Hospitals are dangerous places, just google 'rape hospital'. E6-B Jan 2012 #22

Yeah, hospitals are dangerous! baldguy Jan 2012 #46

My wife is a ICU/ER and sometimes charge Nurse, virginia mountainman Jan 2012 #24

Doesn't mean guns would have stopped those incidents... ellisonz Jan 2012 #35

But it does provide options to the victims ProgressiveProfessor Jan 2012 #57

Of course not. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #58

If quakerboy Jan 2012 #25

Too bad this isn't Wisconsin. I think every health care facility AllyCat Jan 2012 #27

Yes. n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #31

No. LAGC Jan 2012 #33

I don't see how allowing... ellisonz Jan 2012 #34

Sorry, I didn't mean to reply to your post. LAGC Jan 2012 #36

"with secured gates and armed guards" ellisonz Jan 2012 #37

Where are these secured-entry hospitals with guards? I have never seen one. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #78

Nor have I and I have worked at 2 different hospitals. REACTIVATED IN CT Jan 2012 #87

So the solution is to improve security... ellisonz Jan 2012 #121

Still waiting to learn where those well-guarded hospitals are. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #148

They're not forts... ellisonz Jan 2012 #150

So the main entrance is the only entrance? You still have failed to identify even one of those Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #152

I am an ER Nurse at a level 1 trauma center Heddi Jan 2012 #165

Not the case with all hospitals. PavePusher Jan 2012 #172

Where is it? Not that I disbelieve you, I just like to have correct information. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #191

State Patrol.. doesn't your state have State Patrol officeres? Heddi Jan 2012 #196

Thank you for commenting. ellisonz Jan 2012 #209

No shit, me either. X_Digger Jan 2012 #88

So you want "security theater" in hospitals? n/t ellisonz Jan 2012 #153

Please point out where I said something that a rational person could interpret that way, eh? X_Digger Jan 2012 #156

Easy with a search engine: ellisonz Jan 2012 #157

I notice you didn't quote anything about hospitals. X_Digger Jan 2012 #166

Wow. ellisonz Jan 2012 #171

"...the likely outcome is going to be shootings." PavePusher Jan 2012 #174

Do you think they do studies on this exact question? ellisonz Jan 2012 #176

Crime stats are freely available. Go to the light. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #177

On comparitive policies on gun possession and relation to shooting incidents in hospitals? ellisonz Jan 2012 #180

Post removed Post removed Jan 2012 #192

Neither. X_Digger Jan 2012 #183

They don't allow them in the ER here at Huntsville Hospital, because of GANGS. Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #59

Exactly. ellisonz Jan 2012 #120

Note that this is only for the ER. n/t Atypical Liberal Jan 2012 #142

guns should only be allowed in hospitals. Tunkamerica Jan 2012 #39

Yes, and also in nursery schools and on rollercoasters... Rhiannon12866 Jan 2012 #44

Is there any evidence that legally owned firearms are a problem in hospitals? Flatulo Jan 2012 #47

How dare you bring that kind of question up!! SteveW Jan 2012 #265

Yes FunkyLeprechaun Jan 2012 #50

To make a proper point.. Monty22001 Jan 2012 #51

the doctor being shot was done by someone that was legally carrying. AlbertCat Jan 2012 #68

Wow you missed the point Monty22001 Jan 2012 #74

Holy shit. That flew a mile over your head. joeglow3 Jan 2012 #119

Yes jpak Jan 2012 #52

Yes of course. Who needs a needle when you've got a gun. Death with Dignity. denem Jan 2012 #64

"panders to the anti-gun political agenda"... No, it's much better we... TreasonousBastard Jan 2012 #65

TB, how did this post last so long in this forum, yet didn't get in "Guns?" nt SteveW Jan 2012 #266

If one thinks they need a gun with them at all times even in a hospital abelenkpe Jan 2012 #69

Surely you can provide some guarantee of security in exchange for disarming the public.... amIrite? PavePusher Jan 2012 #97

Once again I am deeply embarrased by what my home state is doing. d_legendary1 Jan 2012 #70

And the problem with that would be.... ? n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #98

What better place Turbineguy Jan 2012 #72

Why? What problem would it solve? What would it prevent? cleanhippie Jan 2012 #75

Of course...no bad guy would ever think of violating a ban. Gun-free zones are 100% safe. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #77

Like a sign ever stopped anyone who might do harm? X_Digger Jan 2012 #83

the hospitals I know use weapons detection and security checks marions ghost Jan 2012 #161

None in any hospital in Dallas/Houston (that I've been to).. X_Digger Jan 2012 #167

of course (as in Duh) marions ghost Jan 2012 #84

So if a bad guy decides to ignore the gun ban and comes in armed, your preference is that NOBODY Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #89

Actually, under the same pesly convention I alluded nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #92

ROTFLMAO...if we "decent" into a civil war, guns in hospitals will be the least of our worries. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #110

My preference is that he doen't get in in the first place marions ghost Jan 2012 #162

Well, just have them put up a sign. That always works. Wistful Vista Jan 2012 #190

this is a no brainer nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #90

Err, please detail how the Geneva Convention applies to legally armed civilians.... PavePusher Jan 2012 #99

The Geneva Convention does not allow people nadinbrzezinski Jan 2012 #103

Wrong! hack89 Jan 2012 #107

Cite, please. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #112

Take your time, we'll wait. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #181

re: "...Geneva Convention..." discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #186

Still... waiting.... <YAWN>....... n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #198

After 46 hours with no evidentiary support, I'm assuming you don't have any. PavePusher Jan 2012 #207

Well... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #229

I'm leaning towards "counter-credible" myself... ;>) n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #233

You'd better check... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jan 2012 #234

She may not have seen your post - she has me on ignore hack89 Jan 2012 #239

Her loss. n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #242

HA! BTW, why is this OP not in Guns Group? It's been here 4 days. nt SteveW Jan 2012 #267

I'm assuming it has something to do with who posted it. PavePusher Jan 2012 #272

Watch out! You'll get alerted! And hidden!!... SteveW Jan 2012 #274

No freakin' way! gratuitous Jan 2012 #96

How would that do any good? Taverner Jan 2012 #102

A meaningless, feel good law without guards and metal detectors to enforce it. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #109

From your comments, I feel as if you'd be for it once the funds are allocated. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #135

No - I don't support such laws. nt hack89 Jan 2012 #138

It should be illegal in hospitals, but legal in insurance companies yurbud Jan 2012 #122

YES!!!! Sancho Jan 2012 #124

I would have to disagree- people need to be armed in hospitals Dragonbreathp9d Jan 2012 #126

I missed your post and apologize for No. 133. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #134

Having worked in a few hospitals, incl. inner-city Chicago, I vote an unequivocal YES! nt tpsbmam Jan 2012 #130

No way. Hospitals are the best place for a shooting. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #131

Yep, the real "fixer uppers!" What could be better? CTyankee Jan 2012 #301

Do the zombie outbreaks ever start anywhere else? JackRiddler Jan 2012 #133

Ha! Great minds think alike Dragonbreathp9d Jan 2012 #137

kick Angry Dragon Jan 2012 #164

HELL YES! burrowowl Jan 2012 #173

Ban them in hospitals? Hell Yes. BigDemVoter Jan 2012 #175

Hospitals seem like a perfectly reasonable place to carry guns Renew Deal Jan 2012 #184

Of course minavasht Jan 2012 #201

If guns are not permitted, hospital authorities can take them away from people at the doors. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #220

Because this thread is still going... ellisonz Jan 2012 #208

OK, I'll play. Lasher Jan 2012 #230

This is the funny thing about anti-gun control propaganda... ellisonz Jan 2012 #235

I think the gun control propaganda makes less sense. Lasher Jan 2012 #236

Not really the forum to do it... ellisonz Jan 2012 #237

No, you posted crap from a major Florida newspaper. Lasher Jan 2012 #238

Take it up with the Miami Herald... ellisonz Jan 2012 #240

Cop out. Lasher Jan 2012 #241

YUP! NAILED! fascisthunter Jan 2012 #255

No--if somebody is legally able to carry a gun why shouldn't that extend to hospitals TheCruces Jan 2012 #216

Temporary insanity caused by depression at the loss or illness of a loved one JDPriestly Jan 2012 #218

Temporary insanity can happen anywhere TheCruces Jan 2012 #252

At the very least, hospitals and courts should be gun-free. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #271

Courts are gun-free here TheCruces Jan 2012 #273

Yes. JDPriestly Jan 2012 #217

I know right. Herlong Jan 2012 #221

yes as well as just about everywhere else.... bowens43 Jan 2012 #254

Um... YES! fascisthunter Jan 2012 #256

Yes, absolutely and without question Politicub Jan 2012 #257

Because they all have perfect security and no-one will ever need to defend themselves in one? n/t PavePusher Jan 2012 #260

Nothing is perfect in an imperfect world Politicub Jan 2012 #261

"<My> Mad Max view of things"? Where do you get that bit of hyperbole from? PavePusher Jan 2012 #263

I don't understand, the hospitals aren't allowed to forbid firearms? Humanist_Activist Jan 2012 #262

Right now, hospitals can, if they choose (some do, some don't.) X_Digger Jan 2012 #270

Yes underpants Jan 2012 #268

A simple answer to a dumb question Mosaic Jan 2012 #269

Yes. supernova Jan 2012 #276

guns in hospital full auto guns Jan 2012 #277

This "ban" would only work against folks who follow the law w4rma Jan 2012 #284

Of course! And what better place to have a gun incident but in a place that handles such things CTyankee Jan 2012 #300

Of course. Zoeisright Jan 2012 #290

DR Found in Yonkers Jan 2012 #293