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In reply to the discussion: Israel Is A Terrorist State: Turkey PM [View all]regnaD kciN
(27,767 posts)57. The funny thing about causality...
...is how it can change according to your point-of-view. From an article by Israeli activist Uri Avnery:
HOW DID it start? Stupid question.
Conflagrations along the Gaza Strip dont start. They are just a continuous chain of events, each claimed to be in retaliation for the previous one. Action is followed by reaction, which is followed by retaliation, which is followed by
This particular event started with the firing from Gaza of an anti-tank weapon at a partially armored jeep on the Israeli side of the border fence. It was described as retaliation for the killing of a boy in an air attack some days earlier. But probably the timing of the action was accidental the opportunity just presented itself.
The problem here is that it's all-too-easy for proponents of one side or the other to create a scenario where it's always the other side that's the original inciter, and where one's own side is always "acting in self-defense." Thus, from the pro-Israeli viewpoint most common in the U.S., and which you have expressed above, everything was going just fine in Gaza (ignoring the decades of oppression caused by the Israeli occupation, and intensified in recent years) until Hamas, stirred by nothing other than inherent hatred of Jews, decided to launch unprovoked rocket attacks. In other parts of the world, I'm sure, the viewpoint is that the starting point is always Israeli oppression, ignoring the Arab military threats and homegrown terror attacks that made Israelis conclude that their opponents wouldn't be satisfied until Israel had been "driven into the sea." In either case, one's own side is always right, the other side is always pure evil, and everything one's own side does is "self-defense"...and thus everything is permissible.
As far as I'm concerned, the only way forward is for each side to abandon their claim to pure innocence, admit that the other side has legitimate claims as well, and work toward a fair solution based on that assumption. Until that happens, though, we should probably expect atrocity upon atrocity upon atrocity in the future, with each justified as "defending ourselves," and insisting that everything would be fine if it wasn't for the other side's malevolence and aggression.
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How foolish, you start with preconditions, then end with "sit down w/o pre-conditions".
Lionessa
Nov 2012
#10
Well sorry, I didn't realize you had a different language than the rest of us.
Lionessa
Nov 2012
#20
"That perhaps there might have been other options besides the resettlement of Palestinians?"
ellisonz
Nov 2012
#73
By posting the TOS, are you claiming it's hate speech to say the Palestinians were expelled?
Violet_Crumble
Nov 2012
#112
I'm saying it's hate speech to advocate that Israel should have never existed...
ellisonz
Nov 2012
#116
You're an anti-Arab racist. Your unwilling to acknowledge that Palestine is being bombing says
Puregonzo1188
Nov 2012
#82
Maybe the USA should stop giving Apartheid Israel free Money, Weapons and Intel
PerceptionManagement
Nov 2012
#61
Erdogan would not have made that statement if only Israel had apologized for...
Poll_Blind
Nov 2012
#9
They are a different matter, but they should be entitled to their own homeland as well.
R. Daneel Olivaw
Nov 2012
#58
Nobody powerful in that part of the world would want freedom for the Kurdish people.
Selatius
Nov 2012
#120
That kind of statement coming from him is the worst kind of hypocrisy
ProgressiveProfessor
Nov 2012
#13
Meh, you bring up something that happened 100 years ago because you have no argument now.
Poll_Blind
Nov 2012
#16
Sure, sure. And the Native Americans are still getting a bum deal from the Federal Govt.
Poll_Blind
Nov 2012
#26
The topic is the Turkish PM's statement...which I have pointed out is quite hypociritcal
ProgressiveProfessor
Nov 2012
#80