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hlthe2b

(112,622 posts)
22. Laurence Tribe on why this argument is sheer bullshit:
Wed Oct 11, 2023, 06:36 PM
Oct 2023
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/4198350-does-the-constitution-disqualify-trump-from-running-for-president/

One of these “drive-by claims” is made by former Attorney General Michael Mukasey in a Wall Street Journal opinion piece. He makes the strained argument that Trump cannot be disqualified by Section 3 because the president is not an “officer of the United States” because he is elected, not appointed. There is nothing in the language of the 14th Amendment that would support this conclusion.

As Tribe points out: If the precise provision (Article II, section 1) of the Constitution that creates the presidency explicitly refers to that position as an “Office,” then how can the holder of that Office not be an “officer” of the United States under that very same Constitution? Indeed, Article II of the Constitution refers to the “Office” of President nine times.

Mukasey cites an 1888 Supreme Court case, involving the princely sum of $83.28, for the proposition that “unless a person in the service of the government … holds his place by virtue of an appointment … he is not strictly speaking an officer of the United States.” This case, however, did not involve the Constitution. It did involve an elected official. It did involve a statute providing for reimbursement of travel expenses to certain duly appointed naval officers, but not to the plaintiff, a paymaster’s clerk.

What Mukasey overlooks is that Trump has already claimed in court that he is or was an officer of the United States, and has even cited case law where he himself removed a civil action to federal court as an elected officer of the U.S.

In his petition for removal in the New York indictment charging falsification of business records in connection with a hush money payment to a porn actress, Trump unsuccessfully sought removal to the federal court. There he alleged he was formerly an “officer of the United States” and cited law permitting federal-officer removal for elected members of Congress.

There is recent precedent for this disqualification strategy. Couy Griffin was an elected commissioner for Otero County, New Mexico. Turns out he joined in the Jan. 6 insurrection at the Capitol. A group of New Mexico citizens, also supported by CREW, filed an action against Griffin under New Mexico law, seeking his removal from office. The New Mexico district court took evidence, received legal arguments and then concluded that Griffin was disqualified under Section 3.

Of course, the debate assumes that Trump engaged in an insurrection or rebellion on Jan. 6 or aided and abetted those who did. This is a matter that will have to be resolved at a trial. But, as Tribe notes: “I think it’s clear to most people that if Trump doesn’t qualify [for that] nobody would.” He continues, “It’s important for the survival of the republic that someone who has shown himself … to be an insurrectionist against the Constitution not get another chance to try.”

The bottom line: The disqualification argument has legs, and is a serious lawsuit. The president is not an “officer” of the United States? Apple sauce.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

To "uphold and defend " the Constitution is the same ProudMNDemocrat Oct 2023 #1
I know. This is ridiculous to think otherwise. ananda Oct 2023 #16
Yes & typo.. Ridiculous. TY Cha Oct 2023 #61
Sadly those words meant nothing to him...obviously still don't PortTack Oct 2023 #77
Could Trump and his lawyers get any more ridiculous? Lonestarblue Oct 2023 #2
Trump is a proven liar, he is F*****g delusional, and will say anything to save his own neck. usaf-vet Oct 2023 #72
Well, causing an insurrection isn't protecting or defending the constitution SouthernDem4ever Oct 2023 #3
Good Lord! That's insane. George Orwell was a prophet in his book 1984. ashredux Oct 2023 #4
I have no Constitutional duty to pay the IRS, but you know what? /nt bucolic_frolic Oct 2023 #5
Tell me how you can "defend" the Constitution without "supporting" it . . . . . no_hypocrisy Oct 2023 #6
Trump sees the word support and thinks it means financially? Freethinker65 Oct 2023 #7
Just when I thought trump couldn't be any more disgusting ... YDogg Oct 2023 #8
In it just for himself as usual Blue Owl Oct 2023 #9
tRump basically admitted to attacking the Constitution. You have to support it to preserve it Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2023 #10
Prof. Tribe and Judge Luttig disgree with this theory/claim LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2023 #11
Jack Smith just rubbed his hands with glee over hearing this. ificandream Oct 2023 #12
That's a lot of words for "Trump is a fucking liar." Ray Bruns Oct 2023 #81
Ludricous. How I despise tfg. n/t iluvtennis Oct 2023 #13
Rethugs never let a little thing like our Constitution get in the way of a good grift or power grab. KY_EnviroGuy Oct 2023 #14
hogwash. AllaN01Bear Oct 2023 #15
his lawyers should be disbarred for idiocy moonshinegnomie Oct 2023 #17
The Presidential oath, which the framers of the Fourteenth Amendment surely knew, LiberalFighter Oct 2023 #18
I like presidents who DO support the Constitution nt Shermann Oct 2023 #19
+1 ffr Oct 2023 #64
"uphold and defend" could mean cut it up into toilet paper IronLionZion Oct 2023 #20
Laurence Tribe wrote in detail with another scholar about this being BS. That indeed the President hlthe2b Oct 2023 #21
Laurence Tribe on why this argument is sheer bullshit: hlthe2b Oct 2023 #22
What is the commander and chief? Puppyjive Oct 2023 #40
Well, sort of. malthaussen Oct 2023 #83
Which is, I suppose, tantamount to admitting that he did *not* support the Constitution... malthaussen Oct 2023 #84
It also explains why he dry-humped and wiped his ass with the Constitution... Probatim Oct 2023 #23
Well, THERE'S an image....... oldsoftie Oct 2023 #57
Sorry about that - he's classless and thinks rules don't apply to him. Probatim Oct 2023 #69
Ahhh Hell! BunnyMcGee Oct 2023 #24
Like those sovereign citizens idiots VGNonly Oct 2023 #25
" hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State," CIVIL includes TeamProg Oct 2023 #26
Yep... Think. Again. Oct 2023 #28
A question: Think. Again. Oct 2023 #27
As a Marine veteran, BidenRocks Oct 2023 #29
Oh God I had forgotten that. Ugh oldsoftie Oct 2023 #56
Trump actually received a Purple Heart keithbvadu2 Oct 2023 #62
Navy vet here.. Permanut Oct 2023 #76
Maybe he should re-read the Presidential Oath ... aggiesal Oct 2023 #30
Sick, sick minds. Hollow souls. Psychopaths. Hekate Oct 2023 #31
Such a total fraud, sociopath and mob boss. Evolve Dammit Oct 2023 #32
Are they preparing for SCOTUS appeal? ArizonaLib Oct 2023 #33
..., or hold any office ... aggiesal Oct 2023 #34
Good question Nasruddin Oct 2023 #37
This actually seems like a very 'novel' legal argument by some Federalist Society crackpots ck4829 Oct 2023 #35
When the facts are against you, argue the law... Wounded Bear Oct 2023 #36
Garbage. Of course he's an officer of the US, even by an originalist interpretation. pnwmom Oct 2023 #38
Then what was the inaugural OATH OF OFFICE all about. Why bother if the oath words are ancianita Oct 2023 #39
In my 40 years as a lawyer, I have heard some silly-ass legal arguments but none to top this. TomSlick Oct 2023 #41
By this logic Old Crank Oct 2023 #42
"...or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States" Sogo Oct 2023 #43
I smell the beginning of an insanity plea. Turbineguy Oct 2023 #44
Damn dumb, dude. republianmushroom Oct 2023 #45
Shades Of "It Depends What The Meaning Of 'Is' Is" nt smb Oct 2023 #46
And while we, and especially Repugs, make fun of that phrase, Wednesdays Oct 2023 #82
After we jail TFG, we'll just have to clarify the fourteenth for the RW with Congressional action. marble falls Oct 2023 #47
Cream rises to the top COL Mustard Oct 2023 #48
When truth isn't truth, context becomes meaningless. czarjak Oct 2023 #49
I've had enough of his insanity. usonian Oct 2023 #50
n/t ArkansasDemocrat1 Oct 2023 #71
I will chip in. I would happily eat ramen for the rest of the year if he would just GO niyad Oct 2023 #74
He swore an oath to the Constitution, obviously he had no comprehension of what the job entails. Rhiannon12866 Oct 2023 #51
This is a direct admission that Trump is unable or unwilling to honor his oath of office. Martin68 Oct 2023 #52
This will go over well in the election ads. No wonder he doesn't want to debate. C Moon Oct 2023 #53
All I've got is "are you fuckin' KIDDING me?????" calimary Oct 2023 #54
HE IS SO FULL OF BULLSHIT YoshidaYui Oct 2023 #55
TRAITOR had a blood oath Cha Oct 2023 #58
What the everliving fuck? NewHendoLib Oct 2023 #59
There should be ads run on right wing media having him stating this and then have his magaloons kimbutgar Oct 2023 #60
So than, as the leader of the domestic terrorist organization MAGA, this means all members ffr Oct 2023 #63
I've heard better arguments from sovereign citizens... jmowreader Oct 2023 #65
... ancianita Oct 2023 #79
Just like whiney little child Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2023 #66
5th definition of DEFEND per... 3catwoman3 Oct 2023 #67
I'm sure the court will beg to differ. Warpy Oct 2023 #68
Not much of a surprise kevinore Oct 2023 #70
Our current Supreme Court kacekwl Oct 2023 #73
Absurd argument YES. But it's all they got. Can you imagine Laura PourMeADrink Oct 2023 #75
To quote the great Bo Diddley: colorado_ufo Oct 2023 #78
What a grotesque and despicable imbecile. trusty elf Oct 2023 #80
We all know he scoffed at the oath of office. hamsterjill Oct 2023 #85
That argument right there...that he doesn't believe he has any obligation to "support" the BComplex Oct 2023 #86
"Cheer up. Things could be worse". I cheered up. Then I read what he said. It's worse. Wonder Why Oct 2023 #87
And this man might be president in 2024. qwlauren35 Oct 2023 #88
It does occur to me... jmowreader Oct 2023 #89
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