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dpibel

(3,955 posts)
49. You've presumed your conclusion
Sat Nov 18, 2023, 05:18 PM
Nov 2023

The 14th doesn't say, "has been convicted of the crime of insurrection."

At best, you're reading that into it.

The judge did not, and obviously could not, convict him of a crime, what with this being in the nature of a civil proceeding and all.

That does not, however, preclude the judge from finding, based on the evidence at trial, that he participated in an insurrection for purposes of the 14th.

Your mileage clearly varies, and neither of us will convince the other. So if you need a parting shot, fire away.

On edit: Do those who advocate the "must be convicted" position really believe that the drafters of the 14th contemplated that there would be some vast number of trials in which it had to be proven BRD that any give Confederate was guilty of the crime of insurrection? And that they would overlook putting that requirement into the Amendment?

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Colorado 14th Amendment case LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2023 #1
Sadly, removing him from ballot never had a chance without a conviction. Silent Type Nov 2023 #2
According to whom? dpibel Nov 2023 #4
Sure, after you point out where it says anyone can claim he's an insurrectionist. We need to beat trump at polls Silent Type Nov 2023 #8
Quite a different argument dpibel Nov 2023 #9
I find it best to read posts for content, rather than pointing at, and mouthing, each word, looking Silent Type Nov 2023 #11
LOL dpibel Nov 2023 #12
Are there other crimes that you can be punished for without a conviction? FBaggins Nov 2023 #43
DQ from federal office is not criminal dpibel Nov 2023 #51
Well, the 14th would require charge to be true Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #28
In this case it has been judged true dpibel Nov 2023 #41
Untrue FBaggins Nov 2023 #44
You've presumed your conclusion dpibel Nov 2023 #49
Aren't we presumed innocent until proven guilty? Why would this be different? oldsoftie Nov 2023 #36
That is not the holding. TomSlick Nov 2023 #16
Maybe they thought it was glaringly obvious that the presidency was the preeminent office in the country. LudwigPastorius Nov 2023 #17
They weren't focused on that office. carpetbagger Nov 2023 #40
The judge said he's on ballot, all the other stuff carries little, if any, weight. Michigan also dismissed Silent Type Nov 2023 #23
Watched a fairly comprehensive program on C-SPAN that addressed the applicability of Section 3 of the 14th Amendment. 24601 Nov 2023 #24
So parents preserving, protecting, and defending their children are not supporting them? Nonsense Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #29
Actual words make the difference in determining legal outcomes. Bronston v. United States, 409 U.S. 352 (1973) for 24601 Nov 2023 #35
Interesting and good analysis and background Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2023 #42
Thanks n/t 24601 Nov 2023 #46
Thank our atty gen for wasting a year before doing something about all this. diverdownjt Nov 2023 #31
Might as well strike the provision Miguelito Loveless Nov 2023 #3
The problem is who gets to decide what is or isn't insurrection? Polybius Nov 2023 #22
Colorado judge rules Trump 'engaged in insurrection' -- but can still run for president LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2023 #5
"the 14th Amendment's ban on insurrectionists holding office does not apply to the president. ." was the Ruling......... riversedge Nov 2023 #10
Interesting decision.... scotus may not concur getagrip_already Nov 2023 #6
The courts are a afraid of him and his base. IMO republianmushroom Nov 2023 #7
I see. Judges that are dealing with Trump's criminal charges aren't afraid of him... brooklynite Nov 2023 #21
"any office, civil or military, under the United States," What office does the President come under ? Civil office? Mr. Sparkle Nov 2023 #13
That wasn't the part of 14A that the judge ruled was an issue FBaggins Nov 2023 #45
This is BS. Since when does insurrection happen then? He tried to circumvent a election victory by SWBTATTReg Nov 2023 #14
Could wind up to be the second most poorly worded amendment hydrolastic Nov 2023 #15
0 for 3. brooklynite Nov 2023 #18
As a legal matter? dpibel Nov 2023 #19
The gambit was trying to stop Trump from getting elected by kicking him off the ballot... brooklynite Nov 2023 #20
Ok for the primary; how about the general election? Grins Nov 2023 #25
Nice try ._. Nov 2023 #26
Prof. Tribe and Judge Luttig thinks that this ruling will end being a win LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2023 #27
Cowards, all. Drum Nov 2023 #30
Sarah Wallace is a traitor. n/t D23MIURG23 Nov 2023 #32
It's not all bad. CCExile Nov 2023 #33
I like that idea. ... Hotler Nov 2023 #34
So...how many coups does one have to attempt so they DO enforce it? canuckledragger Nov 2023 #37
Professor Tribe and Judge Luttig explain why the Colorado 14th Amendment decision is wrong LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2023 #38
Professor Tribe and Judge Luttig are great on TV, but I sure wouldn't want them defending me. Luttig takes Silent Type Nov 2023 #39
LMPV -- I don't understand Hekate Nov 2023 #47
CO judge's 'bizarro' Trump eligibility ruling ripped apart by constitutional law experts LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2023 #48
So what about all those Congress members who also participated? intrepidity Nov 2023 #50
Plaintiffs will appeal Colorado's decision to allow Trump to remain on the ballot LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2023 #52
The Colorado Supreme Court set arguments for 12/6 in the TFG 14th Amendment disqualification case LetMyPeopleVote Nov 2023 #53
I look for the next court to keep him off the ballot. Emile Nov 2023 #54
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