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Ken Burch

(50,254 posts)

17. It's not him(although there was no excuse for Obama to aid and abet the Honduran coup)

Sat Dec 15, 2012, 01:26 AM

Dec 2012

It's our whole history in the hemisphere. The U.S. government has been the leading force for greed, inequality, brutality and outright evil ever since the enunciation of the Monroe Doctrine.

We have no right to control Latin America. It is not our "sphere of influence"...Latin America exists, first and foremost, for itself, and has the right to run its affairs on its own terms, and to put the needs of the people of Latin America first.

And every time any U.S. president has started attacking a Latin American country for supposedly being "dictatorial" the result was either a bloody military coup(Guatemala, the Dominican Republic and Chile being the best-known examples in fairly recent history)a military destabilization campaign(the so-called "Contras" that the U.S. invented to torment Nicaragua)or the long-term subjugation of a smaller country(the economic persecution of Cuba).

Learn your history before you make sanctimonious comments about what other countries do.

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Venezuela furious at Obama's comments on ailing Chavez [View all] Zorro Dec 2012 OP

Reminds me of the fifties dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #1

authoritarian policies, suppression of dissent is Obama talking about various Occupy here lunasun Dec 2012 #2

Yeah that too. Actually I was wondering how many drones........ socialist_n_TN Dec 2012 #63

That's messed up Kolesar Dec 2012 #3

I don't think ANYONE has it right about Chevez and Venezuela. randome Dec 2012 #5

Yes. It's a big topic. Kolesar Dec 2012 #6

Obama AND Hillary are dumb on Cuba flamingdem Dec 2012 #24

Hillary's brother, Hugh Rodham's wife....Maria Victoria Arias mithnanthy Dec 2012 #42

Oh that's interesting, I've known about her influence for years flamingdem Dec 2012 #43

I edited my post.. mithnanthy Dec 2012 #46

That's good stuff Kolesar Dec 2012 #49

The Hugo Chavez Show is very informative Carnage251 Dec 2012 #11

For being "ineffective and erratic", Hugo certainly has accomplished quite a bit 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #35

Yeah, I don't really care about his personality. randome Dec 2012 #41

Don't be so intellectually lazy, by comparing the two men. HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #66

+ 1000 - well said. nt 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #78

"Intellectually lazy" is the perfect description for all of the anti-democracy trolls bitchkitty Dec 2012 #102

wow, the people support him when he's gained control of all branches of gov., wordpix Dec 2012 #125

Hugo knows that the US/CIA is utterly determined to unseat him somehow 99th_Monkey Dec 2012 #149

oh yeah, the US wants to unseat him and he's the CIA's prime target (sarcasm) wordpix Dec 2012 #174

If Chavez were ineffective, roody Dec 2012 #116

Chavez is neither a monster or the Second Coming, what he is ... HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #65

Why does my opinion of Chavez even matter? MyNameGoesHere Dec 2012 #98

he has changed the Constitution and chipped away at democracy and rights of citizens wordpix Dec 2012 #124

The people of Venezuela got it right and it is no one else's business. The Chavez sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #131

And it ain't the only issue he has never got right. Daniel537 Dec 2012 #48

President Obama didn't start "those three" Kolesar Dec 2012 #154

Authoritarian like extrajudicial killing, kidnapping and imprisonment? Ash_F Dec 2012 #4

Authoritarian like only allowing abortion when there is a threat to the life of the pregnant woman Carnage251 Dec 2012 #8

The US is 47 on that list happyslug Dec 2012 #20

Chinese leaders aren't so great either but we never see them getting called out.. flamingdem Dec 2012 #23

and the Chinese leaders were 'picked' not elected but are the business buddies lunasun Dec 2012 #85

Well, he created the community councils that have given Venezuela real democracy(from the ground up) Ken Burch Dec 2012 #27

And is the opposition pro-choice? JackRiddler Dec 2012 #140

Obama has no moral high ground to be calling Venezuela authoritarian Ash_F Dec 2012 #32

I assume you are aware that Venenuela is predominately Catholic country dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #34

That documentary wasn't that much of an indictment. ronnie624 Dec 2012 #64

Virtually all Latin American countries have strict anti-abortion laws. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #91

It would seem impossible for anyone to be unaware of Latin American Catholicism. Yikes. n/t Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #92

Chavez has had decree powers for much of his tenure. joshcryer Dec 2012 #96

The candidate you were backing was appealing to them as well. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #97

Yeah, I doubt you could get elected there being pro-choice. joshcryer Dec 2012 #100

There's a difference though, in observing that Chavez may have taken social conservative positions Ken Burch Dec 2012 #101

The thing is Obama gets bashed here for that "pragmatism." joshcryer Dec 2012 #103

'lighter-skinned people' King_David Dec 2012 #127

I was talking about a situation where you have LGBT rights and you also have Ken Burch Dec 2012 #133

most of the poor in Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay are lighter skinned Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #136

OK, I was specifically talking about Venezuela. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #146

no, the indigenous populations in those two countries are quite small Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #147

It still applies to Venezuela, though Ken Burch Dec 2012 #150

sure, I would just point out that the current VP Maduro is a homophobe Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #152

You'd have to concede, though, that it would be a loss for Venezuela to end up Ken Burch Dec 2012 #166

not really, nobody has ever argued for austerity Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #168

The decree powers have always been very limited, both in scope and duration, ronnie624 Dec 2012 #109

He's used them beyond that scope before. joshcryer Dec 2012 #118

So having watched the video... Ash_F Dec 2012 #115

He's right about Gaddafi. leftlibdem420 Dec 2012 #123

And Homeland Security and Loyal Party Mayors tama Dec 2012 #38

yes, that is exactly it, I know someone whose house was searched by Chavez' men twice wordpix Dec 2012 #126

Anonymous internet anecdotes are useless here. Ash_F Dec 2012 #128

I am not revealing the names of my friends whose entire family fled Chavez for their lives and due wordpix Dec 2012 #138

First they were searching their homes, now they're kidnapping them off the streets. Ash_F Dec 2012 #157

read this to get it straight: it was Chavez' thugs TWICE at the father's home and wordpix Dec 2012 #173

20% of crimes in Venezuela are attributed to the police, and that number Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #156

And this is relevant reply, how? Ash_F Dec 2012 #158

because you said that Venezuela doesn't do that, you are wrong. Here is your quote Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #159

Try reading for comprehension Ash_F Dec 2012 #162

in your first response you also said the military leans right, nope Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #164

No, the military leans left so they kidnapped him. Ash_F Dec 2012 #167

correct, the military leans left. You should have stopped there Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #170

The military kidnapped Hugo Chavez in 2002 Ash_F Dec 2012 #171

You educated (sic) yourself. You are wrong that the military leans right. Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #172

I am furious with him too Proletariatprincess Dec 2012 #7

Yeah, we also should never criticize North Korea and their political prison camps Carnage251 Dec 2012 #10

It's not him(although there was no excuse for Obama to aid and abet the Honduran coup) Ken Burch Dec 2012 #17

I know my history and I don't see Obama attempting a coup in that country Carnage251 Dec 2012 #50

If you really UNDERSTOOD that history, you'd understand Ken Burch Dec 2012 #86

Venezuelans are more than familiar with US butting into their country's personal business. Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #88

Thanks for the eloquent images, Judi. n/t. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #90

So glad to do it. Can't believe people are arguing who are unaware of this OLD, OLD conflict. n/t Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #93

+1 mecherosegarden Dec 2012 #44

Venezuela has nothing in common with North Korea or Syria. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #99

...except for supporting them brooklynite Dec 2012 #135

I agree with President Obama on this. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #9

Why? Tempest Dec 2012 #12

And I hear the trains are always on time, too. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #13

Chavez has nothing in common with Mussolini. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #15

Let's go through the list. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #18

He called George Bush the devil, and I've always appreciated him for that flamingdem Dec 2012 #25

Yeah, we'll see if the new guy is any better when Chavez kicks the bucket. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #59

I'm more partial to his description of Bush being a donkey...LOL HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #67

eres un burrro! flamingdem Dec 2012 #68

"allies with rogue nations" ie: Nations the U.S. hates Tempest Dec 2012 #29

Yeah, I'm easily annoyed by dictators, theocrats and terrorist sympathizers. I'm just like that. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #61

Since Chavez is none of those things, your annoyance is misplaced. n/t Tempest Dec 2012 #74

I was talking about Hugo's terrorist allies (FARC) and his theocrat oil buddies in Iran. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #81

The FARC is a Marxist guerrilla political formation, not "terrorists"... Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #145

FARC is engaged in an armed conflict to overthrow the Colombian democratic government Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #148

They are a political-military formation. Comrade Grumpy Dec 2012 #153

they conscript child soldiers to fight and die, and girls as sexual slaves Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #155

Hey, I gotta trust Barack and Hilary on this one. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #177

So you don't like his health regime and his, and his supporters, style of dress? fasttense Dec 2012 #37

Fatherland & Homeland Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #56

You have no fucking clue what you're talking about. The word patria is used in every Spanish Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2012 #76

"Fatherland" is just a word-by itself, it means nothing. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #95

Actually, you can say that at about many Latin American countries RZM Dec 2012 #169

I don't agree with you. mecherosegarden Dec 2012 #45

They might want socialism, but that does not mean it is a good thing. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #57

As foreigners, It's not our place to say if it "isn't a good thing"-we're not Venezuelan. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #84

They criticize other countries all the time in Venezuela. We can do it, too. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #104

The diffference is that nobody in Latin America has ever tried to overthrow OUR government. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #112

I would think criticizing instead of overthrowing would be an improvement. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #120

By many measures, the people are better off under Chavez Tempest Dec 2012 #28

Obama and Hilary know the score. I trust them to judge Chavez. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #62

Did you trust Mrs. Clinton during all those years she supported her friend Hosni Mubarak? nt Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2012 #77

Of course! Are you saying Clinton and Obama were WRONG? Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #80

Duh! So you support some dictators then. I thought you said above thread you were "Mr. Democracy". nt Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2012 #82

Yes...they were wrong to not immediately back the Egyptian Revolution. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #87

Oh, great! First you criticize Obama, now you're slamming Carter! Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #105

It's Democratic Underground...NOT "DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS MUST NEVER BE CRITICIZED Underground". Ken Burch Dec 2012 #111

Don't feed it. /nt Ash_F Dec 2012 #113

Carter, BTW, was BANNED from watchdogging the last election in Venez. THAT's how "democratic" wordpix Dec 2012 #139

Duh! Of course I support the policies of the Obama admin. Pterodactyl Dec 2012 #106

Great now that you've admitted your hypocrisy. We can move on. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Dec 2012 #110

He should just shut the hell up about Venezuela. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #14

Totally agree, and we almost had a Republican coup here flamingdem Dec 2012 #22

Obama must realize Stewland Dec 2012 #16

People in this thread are misreading what Obama is saying, typically. joshcryer Dec 2012 #19

How so? Tempest Dec 2012 #30

Case in point. joshcryer Dec 2012 #31

Oh, please. Time after time you refer to tyranny and you use bitchkitty Dec 2012 #114

Um, no, I don't. joshcryer Dec 2012 #117

Um, yes, you do. n/t bitchkitty Dec 2012 #121

Nope, chavismo is an ideology followed by chavistas. joshcryer Dec 2012 #122

And means nothing other than support for socialism and human equality. Ken Burch Dec 2012 #151

Venezuelans just put paid to your "chavismo" talk in the latest elections. JackRiddler Dec 2012 #143

Obama is another oaf on Latin America flamingdem Dec 2012 #21

At a time when we can't even protect our children in the USA what is Obama doing dissing flamingdem Dec 2012 #26

He needs to stop John2 Dec 2012 #51

Obama was in Colombia in April, went to Chile too I believe and Mexico Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #142

how is Chavez protecting his people with the highest murder rate in South America Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #141

I never thought I would see a Chavez thread as a refuge from animosity. Lasher Dec 2012 #33

Venezuela furious at Obama's comments on ailing Chavez dipsydoodle Dec 2012 #36

This message was self-deleted by its author bitchkitty Dec 2012 #39

Riiiiigght. "Authoritarian". In *Venezuela*. (Not here.) So sez the 1 billion dollar man. n/t Smarmie Doofus Dec 2012 #40

Exactly! It's not like Chavez asked for the power to rule by decree hughee99 Dec 2012 #54

Yes, Mr. Pres., Venezuela's future belongs to Venezuelans Daniel537 Dec 2012 #47

The President's remarks have infuriated the Venezuelan people, not just Chavez. amandabeech Dec 2012 #129

The emerging Latin American Democracies... bvar22 Dec 2012 #52

Let's not forget that Chavez was the excuse to let the right wing thugs take over in Honduras flamingdem Dec 2012 #53

It's telling that Zelaya was first taken to a USA military base after being deposed. He was byeya Dec 2012 #55

Haven't South and Central America recently organized an OAS-like hemispheric byeya Dec 2012 #58

I'm not sure but it was discussed flamingdem Dec 2012 #69

Thanks for the information byeya Dec 2012 #73

yes, its known as CELAC but hasn't done anyting at all yet Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #144

President Obama You Are WRONG! HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #60

We need to kick his ass on this one flamingdem Dec 2012 #70

There are so many things we must due to ... HoosierRadical Dec 2012 #72

Me too. I listened to his remarks and they aren't as bad as I thought at first flamingdem Dec 2012 #75

Like all autocrats he has done some good and some bad jzodda Dec 2012 #71

Shame on Chavez's authoritarian policies and shame, double shame on his suppression of dissent indepat Dec 2012 #79

McCarthyite tripe. David__77 Dec 2012 #83

Tough crap, Venezuela. Don't allow yourself to be ruled by such a ridiculous dictator Pretzel_Warrior Dec 2012 #89

Take some time to educate yourself with the facts. You'll have to do some reading for that, Judi Lynn Dec 2012 #94

Post removed Post removed Dec 2012 #107

Your concern is noted. Please feel free to share more of your concerns, and enjoy your stay. nt msanthrope Dec 2012 #108

Does Pres. O know anything about Venezuela? roody Dec 2012 #119

He's getting more like Smirk every day Doctor_J Dec 2012 #176

What utter nonsense. Venezuela is more free than this country. sabrina 1 Dec 2012 #130

Sorry our President is behind the times in South American policy. Cleita Dec 2012 #132

CELAC: Will it be able to sustain itself? byeya Dec 2012 #134

The DU chavistas are furious too n/t Bacchus4.0 Dec 2012 #137

"But he did say U.S. policy was aimed at ensuring "freedom" in Venezuela." limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #160

USA loves authoritarian regimes in Bahrain, Yemen, Qatar, etc. limpyhobbler Dec 2012 #161

I am still waiting for the now-free-to-act-like-a-Dem Obama to show up Doctor_J Dec 2012 #163

Maybe ma�ana, amigo, maybe ma�ana. nt Zorra Dec 2012 #175

Hugo's cancer has reportedly metastized into his bones Zorro Dec 2012 #165