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allrevvedup

(408 posts)
66. The Vatican only owns its property in Rome
Thu Jan 3, 2013, 01:48 PM
Jan 2013

and its nuncios, and Vatican City is about as big as an average urban university. Catholic properties (parishes, hospitals, etc) are typically owned by their local bishop, and since the pope is the bishop of Rome, he only "owns" his Roman property and the Vatican embassies. Here's a discussion of the question posted on DU eight years ago:

happyslug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Mon Dec-26-05 08:35 PM
10. The General Rule is Catholic Property is owned by the Bishop/Diocese

This is based on the old Middle age Concept that the Property of a political/Religious unit is owned by the person in charge of that Political/Religious unit. In the Middle ages (Before modern concepts of land ownership appeared) the King was viewed as owning everything he had NOT sold to someone else (and this is still the theory on Land Titles in the US, you are the "Tenant" of the "King" who since July 4th, 1776 is now your state the land is in NOT the King of England). Wild Animals are owned by the "King" (Now the State) till taken as game EVEN IF ON PROPERTY OWNED BY A PRIVATE OWNER.

In the Middle ages this was Even more severe. If you were the Ruler of a an area you were also viewed as owning everything in that Kingdom or Dukedom or County etc. Bishops were viewed as having that same "power" except restricted to "Religious" property. Thus, unless there is clear evidence to the contrary, any property owned by the Catholic Church in a Diocese is "owned" by that Diocese's Bishop (and thus the Diocese).

You have exceptions, the house of the Papal Nuncio (The Ambassador from the Vatican) is "owned" by the Vatican not the Catholic Bishop of Washington. Other exemptions include Jesuits and Franciscan's (and other religious orders, including female religious orders) Monasteries, Convents, Schools, Retreats etc. are often owned by the Religious Society as opposed to the Diocese. You sometime have disputes when a Parish has its own funds, that the Diocese views as its own (Year to Year operating funds are rarely in dispute, but large endowments are often disputed especially when an old Church is closed i.e. what to do with that Parish's funds given the parish no longer exists).

My point here is a clear picture would take a lot of Research as to how various lands are held within a Diocese. If it is NOT clear otherwise the property belongs to the Diocese (and thus the Bishop).

Note the Pope is the "Bishop of Rome" NOT the "Bishop of the World" thus the only property the pope owns in in the Diocese of Rome EXCEPT where it is clear the papacy is the owner of the property instead of the local Bishop (Papal Nuncio and other Vatican missions are examples of this).

One note on the "Riches" of the Vatican, a lot of it are Art and Sculpture that any secular ruler of the 1500-1800s had to have to show he was a successful ruler. With expansion of Democracy such objects are no longer fashionable but the Vatican has more than most countries and have adopted a policy that other countries have adopted for such arts objects (i.e. put them in Museums so people can see them). The Vatican has several such Museums (Including one on "profane" art i.e. non-religious art objects) in Rome. These art objects are both valuable and in-valuable. I hate to say it the best solution to what to do with them is what the Vatican (and other European Governments with similar Art abjects obtains during the same time period) have done, put them in Museum instead of selling them to private collectors where most people will never see them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=5691728&mesg_id=5691862


The long and short of it is that the Vatican owns about as much real estate as a typical state university. Ironically enough, when I was there last October, Italy announced plans to repeal its tax exemptions on all religions properties including the Vatican.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Speak for yourself, you nazi bastard. Archae Jan 2013 #1
I can't argue with what you said... SoapBox Jan 2013 #3
It's unfair to call him a Nazi. totodeinhere Jan 2013 #29
He "joined becuase he had to," right? Archae Jan 2013 #31
Can you back up your claim that he wanted to? totodeinhere Jan 2013 #32
He was 14 Ter Jan 2013 #37
As a Catholic, this disturbs me.... musical_soul Jan 2013 #46
Okay, nevermind. musical_soul Jan 2013 #47
So Pope Rat the 1rst would be ok if he blessed Hitler? Archae Jan 2013 #48
Maybe so... awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #36
I would be the first to criticize him for a lot of things including the totodeinhere Jan 2013 #60
One could say that to anyone CountAllVotes Jan 2013 #58
I would NEVER agree with the men in the pointy hats BUT... SoapBox Jan 2013 #2
+1,000 freshwest Jan 2013 #8
BTW... SoapBox Jan 2013 #10
Thanks! 'Not everyday is a great day, but everyday we still live is a good day.' freshwest Jan 2013 #16
Is the pope pro middle class? n/t AlphaCentauri Jan 2013 #4
Pope Slams Capitalism AlbertCat Jan 2013 #5
I think he's just mad it replaced feudalism. nt. naaman fletcher Jan 2013 #6
! nt eppur_se_muova Jan 2013 #18
Someone send this link to Paul Ryan. pamela Jan 2013 #7
Perfect. A few thousand tweets and posts on his Facebook page won't change his mind, but might wake freshwest Jan 2013 #9
"...send this link to Paul Ryan" SoapBox Jan 2013 #12
denouncing "unregulated capitalism" - Isn't that an OCCUPY theme? Bozita Jan 2013 #11
Yep! OTV! Amonester Jan 2013 #27
This from the same jackass Liberalagogo Jan 2013 #13
Well, I can't believe... ReRe Jan 2013 #14
It would mean a lot more, coming from Ratzi, if he hadn't spent his time at the Inquisition Ken Burch Jan 2013 #15
Liberation theology is the only form of Catholicism that Rozlee Jan 2013 #20
And, of course, Brazilian archbishop Dom Helder Camera Ken Burch Jan 2013 #24
Sounds like the Catholicism I grew up with. Baitball Blogger Jan 2013 #17
Even a blind nut can find a squirrel sometimes. nt eppur_se_muova Jan 2013 #19
Corporate Media Will Censor Unless It Is Pope Slamming... TomCADem Jan 2013 #21
good for him. Hope he sticks with it. /nt think Jan 2013 #22
Sez the guy with a gold staff, silk robes, his own city and a legion of servants. TalkingDog Jan 2013 #23
word: phantom power Jan 2013 #25
That pic is SO creepy SoapBox Jan 2013 #34
Seriously, this came out of the mouth of a guy who sits on a gold throne!? (eom) dorkzilla Jan 2013 #51
No he won't do that. He wants YOU to pay for the poor he helped create. SunSeeker Jan 2013 #39
Sadly quakerboy Jan 2013 #26
A broken clock is right twice a day eom LiberalElite Jan 2013 #28
Exactly what I thought. nt SunSeeker Jan 2013 #38
Pope, just stfu. We don't care what you have to say. Politicub Jan 2013 #30
Like it'll make any difference Prophet 451 Jan 2013 #33
Fuck you, Ratso. nt awoke_in_2003 Jan 2013 #35
Wow, the level of discourse in this thread is really something. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #40
If it makes "eminent sense" _ed_ Jan 2013 #56
So when is he turning over the Vatican's vast wealth to the poor? Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #41
Too bad he is a hater lunasun Jan 2013 #42
Here is the actual homily, it is only None paragraphs long happyslug Jan 2013 #43
This thread might be helpful in this situation: woo me with science Jan 2013 #44
What he condemned was capitalism, not necessarily all capitalism. musical_soul Jan 2013 #45
Take what you can get primavera Jan 2013 #49
The Pope? defacto7 Jan 2013 #50
Why doesn't he sell a Bernini or two? Manifestor_of_Light Jan 2013 #52
That sceptre would feed ten thousand people for a week. ronnie624 Jan 2013 #53
And ten thousand peope would put a buck in the collection plate allrevvedup Jan 2013 #54
Post removed Post removed Jan 2013 #55
This whole thread is pretty much a disgrace and an embarrassment. Comrade Grumpy Jan 2013 #57
+2,000,000,000 CountAllVotes Jan 2013 #59
Oh please. Arugula Latte Jan 2013 #61
He's not talking about respect, he's talking about hate. allrevvedup Jan 2013 #63
Was he wearing his Prada shoes at the time? AnnieBW Jan 2013 #62
"the global financial crisis was proof that capitalism does not protect society's weakest members." IndyJones Jan 2013 #64
One of the largest land-owners in the world (vatican) decries inequality between rich and poor? Fire Walk With Me Jan 2013 #65
The Vatican only owns its property in Rome allrevvedup Jan 2013 #66
So says the queen in her ivory tower...nt and-justice-for-all Jan 2013 #67
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