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primavera

(5,191 posts)
93. It's a little different
Mon Jan 28, 2013, 10:54 PM
Jan 2013

I disagree that the "level of risk rests with the individual." The individual has the ability to mitigate risk by modifying their behavior in such a way as to reduce their risk of coming to harm in an environment for which others bear the responsibility of creating the hazard. If there were no muggers, I wouldn't need to take precautions when walking down the street at night; if there were no cars, I would not need to wear brightly colored clothes and lights in order to go cycling at night; and, if there were no hunters, I would not have to wear neon clothing in order to avoid being shot while out minding my own business in a public forest.

As you say, we all make adjustments to our behavior to adapt to the reality of the environment in which we live. But there's still a cost-benefit analysis to be performed with every such decision. I could give my toddler a vial of Hanta virus to play with and ask everyone else in my community to take precautions against accidentally being infected. But that would be insane. Because there's no benefit to giving my child a vial of Hanta virus to play with when a rattle would be a more gratifying toy anyway and the potential risk of causing harm to others is sky-high. We perform the same analysis with automobiles. There is undeniably a risk associated with automobiles. However, our entire economy and way of living would collapse without automobiles, so the benefit from automobiles outweighs the risks associated with them. Even so, we continue to have an obligation to be continuously making vehicles as safe as we possibly can, so as to make that cost-benefit ratio as advantageous as possible. If someone was indifferent to that duty and felt it was just fine to operate an unsafe vehicle, that person would appropriately be considered a selfish asshole, right?

So, if one applies the same sort of reasoning to hunting, how do the benefits and costs stack up? I'm not sure what benefits it offers, but I do perceive that there is some cost to myself and others who might like to enjoy wild areas without being shot. And, to some extent, you're right that I'm a treehugger at heart and I'm not a great fan of going into an unspoiled wilderness and killing things in it. I mean, that is the purpose of hunting, right? You don't go into the wilderness with a gun looking for animals for the purpose of wishing them a nice day, do you? Many species have been hunted by humans to the brink of extinction or beyond. Even if you don't hit anything, studies show that there is a growing problem in frequently hunted areas with animals contracting lead poisoning from eating lead shot and/or lead that has percolated down into the water table. Yeah, I know, I'm one of those obnoxious ecoterrorist types who thinks that animals have a moral right to live and that biodiversity is a thing to be valued. But, from my point of view, disruption to and destruction of wildlife fall into the "cost" column. Now I can't enter into that environment without adjusting my behavior to accommodate the rules that hunters necessitate to avoid being shot. Another tally stroke in the "cost" column. Is there some indispensable benefit on the other side, that can't be accomplished through other lest costly means, to outweigh these costs? If the "benefit" is the adrenaline rush of seeing another living creature's head explode, that doesn't seem like all that great a benefit when weighed against the costs. So the question as far as I'm concerned is not so much whether I like hunting (fine, you got me, I don't care for it, but that's actually beside the point), but whether it generates enough positives to outweigh its negatives.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

He's playing to their racism.... alittlelark Jan 2013 #1
Obama's cool. napoleon_in_rags Jan 2013 #2
Omg obama2terms Jan 2013 #15
It's already a movie - came out in 2010. n/t bitchkitty Jan 2013 #16
Lol obama2terms Jan 2013 #48
Yeah, definitely see it. napoleon_in_rags Jan 2013 #78
Do they hunt with $1500 AR15s in this movie? Hassin Bin Sober Jan 2013 #19
Yes. Because it takes about a dozen bunnies to make a decent stew. Squinch Jan 2013 #51
"Hunting" wasn't even a consideration when the founding fathers installed the 2A. eom Purveyor Jan 2013 #3
Horses and bayonets Why Syzygy Jan 2013 #5
Listen more? To what, more screaming and wailing about how teh gubbint gunna tack r gurhns? DRoseDARs Jan 2013 #4
You would have thought by now that everyone would have figured hack89 Jan 2013 #17
It would be easier for us to hear them talk about how we are going to Squinch Jan 2013 #52
I totally agree with Obama. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #6
I've had venison and liked it tavalon Jan 2013 #12
Isn't It Funny: Watching The Gun Rights People Embrace Hunting. Paladin Jan 2013 #20
Truth be told, I had never heard that tavalon Jan 2013 #23
you do realize Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #28
You got me, actually, I didn't and don't know my subject well enough tavalon Jan 2013 #29
thank you for not calling me names Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #32
I've said numerous times in this thread that I'm not against hunting tavalon Jan 2013 #36
What About The 30-Round Magazine, Mr. Duckhunter? Paladin Jan 2013 #31
I have no problems Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #34
"DUCKHUNTER" Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #35
Would you like Tic-Tac's or Lifesavers that only hold 5 candies? Ter Jan 2013 #47
Yeah, Because Gun Magazines And Hard Candy Are Pretty Much The Same. Paladin Jan 2013 #49
Gosh. We didn't realize. And of course, what's most important to the rest of us is Squinch Jan 2013 #54
Who said anything about me? Ter Jan 2013 #70
Move. mac56 Jan 2013 #73
You live in an abusive city......mmmmkay.... Squinch Jan 2013 #85
How about a semi-automatic with a legally modified stock? LastLiberal in PalmSprings Jan 2013 #71
I've hunted with an Browning auto rifle and shotgun sense 1969, oldbanjo Jan 2013 #61
I wish I only heard gun shots a couple of times a year BainsBane Jan 2013 #81
It's actually more than a couple of times a year here too. And, it isn't deer. JDPriestly Jan 2013 #94
Oh, I don't know. SheilaT Jan 2013 #7
I think your post shows what the President means. We are probably in near agreement on the issue. Bluenorthwest Jan 2013 #21
Lose a child??? onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #37
I am trying to make the point that the deaths of innocents SheilaT Jan 2013 #72
True... onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #77
Big Mistake MJJP21 Jan 2013 #8
Even in urban areas, a gun in the home safeinOhio Jan 2013 #10
This message was self-deleted by its author Kablooie Jan 2013 #9
I don't dismiss hunting tavalon Jan 2013 #11
You're correct, tavalon..The crux of the problem is the large clips and truth2power Jan 2013 #39
This is where you are wrong Lurks Often Jan 2013 #42
that is such a poorly constructed thought you should be embarrassed for putting it in public farminator3000 Jan 2013 #56
You are correct. oldbanjo Jan 2013 #65
I have hunted with Browning auto rifles sense 1969. oldbanjo Jan 2013 #63
President Obama is correct Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #13
I don't think losing the emotion is the way to go, actually tavalon Jan 2013 #24
Nice post! (text below) Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #44
It was a stab at a joke that Molly Ivins first said in her amazing way tavalon Jan 2013 #57
Gotcha. I learn something new every day :) Demo_Chris Jan 2013 #62
My Florida concealed weapons permit allows me to carry a concealed knife... spin Jan 2013 #79
Swell. Now get rid of assault weapons, assault clips, and 'semi-automatic' functionality... onehandle Jan 2013 #14
What does " get rid of" mean to you? hack89 Jan 2013 #18
I know you didn't address that to me, but I'm going to answer it anyway tavalon Jan 2013 #26
Ok hack89 Jan 2013 #45
The politics of it is a minor issue the major issue thats standing in the way is cstanleytech Jan 2013 #64
Obama talking to you - old west revolvers and other "semi-auto" guns here to stay askeptic Jan 2013 #25
Call me delusional tavalon Jan 2013 #27
Then no need to look up what the word "infringe" means askeptic Jan 2013 #38
About a well armed militia? tavalon Jan 2013 #60
"giving gun nuts a reach around". Yes he was. n/t truth2power Jan 2013 #40
hunting rifle, get rid of this Duckhunter935 Jan 2013 #30
If you get rid of semi-automatics... krispos42 Jan 2013 #53
My father was born in Pistol Hill, Tx., which is no longer there. During the Great Depression, Dustlawyer Jan 2013 #22
In a past life... onpatrol98 Jan 2013 #41
they need to realize that rural life and city life have different needs and expectations klyon Jan 2013 #33
ILLEGAL guns in the urban areas are the problem Lurks Often Jan 2013 #43
Obama is falling prey to the pro-gun's rhetoric - it is not all or nothing underpants Jan 2013 #46
While I support the president... jbone45 Jan 2013 #50
good point. same here... farminator3000 Jan 2013 #58
Obama is right. Ignore what he says at your peril. bluestateguy Jan 2013 #55
Good luck with that. JoeyT Jan 2013 #59
I, for one . . . Brigid Jan 2013 #66
President Obama never misses a chance to scold his base. forestpath Jan 2013 #67
Problem is, a lot of hunters won't go to the big city without a gun in their car, and Hoyt Jan 2013 #68
The criminal element in the big cities totally agrees with you. ... spin Jan 2013 #80
Your paranoia is noted. I know thy gun comforts you, but ever really needed a gun in the city? Hoyt Jan 2013 #84
No. I have never had to use my firearm for self defense but ... spin Jan 2013 #89
So write different laws for the urban environment dickthegrouch Jan 2013 #69
And proper storage is key. Brigid Jan 2013 #74
bwhahahaha fascisthunter Jan 2013 #75
Anyone know anything about the frequency of hunting accidents? primavera Jan 2013 #76
Is Dick Cheney there? JVS Jan 2013 #82
Better safe than sorry. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #83
Sigh primavera Jan 2013 #86
You can enjoy the forest all you want, but doing it irresponsibly carries with it risk. Socal31 Jan 2013 #88
And whom do I thank for that added risk? primavera Jan 2013 #90
Saying hunters "blast everything in sight"... Socal31 Jan 2013 #91
It's a little different primavera Jan 2013 #93
Cost / benefit Crepuscular Jan 2013 #99
Thank you, that's good information primavera Jan 2013 #102
Excellent post! ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #104
There are always a few trouble makers in the crowd for any given group of good size. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #92
You don't see a certain cart-before-the-horse issue here? primavera Jan 2013 #95
If you don't want to share the woods with the hunters, then wait for hunting season to end. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #96
Such munificence! primavera Jan 2013 #98
The woods are not for your exclusive use. ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #103
Exclusive use primavera Jan 2013 #105
Glad we could help! ManiacJoe Jan 2013 #106
Hunting seasons do not exist year round.. MicaelS Jan 2013 #100
I wasn't aware that appreciating nature needed to generate revenue primavera Jan 2013 #101
Being Presidential 4Q2u2 Jan 2013 #87
There can only be one gun law for the whole country. Bonobo Jan 2013 #97
Message auto-removed lexis Feb 2013 #107
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