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Mutatis Mutandis

(90 posts)
21. "I bet the countries that give the USA permission to root out the terrorists like the drones better"
Tue Feb 12, 2013, 03:56 PM
Feb 2013

Really? I suggest you go to Pakistan(just for starters) and conduct a poll.


Pakistanis hate the drone war: The proof is in the data

http://dawn.com/2013/01/30/pakistanis-hate-the-drone-war-the-proof-is-in-the-data/

Writing for the Atlantic, three American academics posed a challenge in their article http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/01/you-say-pakistanis-all-hate-the-drone-war-prove-it/267447/ titled: “You Say Pakistanis All Hate the Drone War? Prove It.” I thought I did prove it http://dawn.com/2013/01/02/pilots-dinner-trumps-regard-for-civilian-lives/ a few weeks ago. But I welcome the opportunity to elaborate even further.

The American academics are convinced that a large number of Pakistanis are ignorant of drone strikes, and that another sufficiently large number of Pakistanis support the American drone strikes on Pakistani territory. The academics have relied on a data set by Pew Global Attitudes Project to reach these conclusions. I have demonstrated in an earlier submission that their conclusions are not supported by data. I further illustrate here that the data set is deficient in answering questions of such wide implications.

Let me begin by answering the question, “how many Pakistanis support drone strikes?” Using the same data set as the one used by the American academics I found no more than the 20 respondents out of the 2,000 (i.e., 1 per cent) surveyed by the Pew Global Attitudes Project who truly supported the drone war. Let me explain: if we consider only those respondents who were aware of the drone strikes and who considered drones to be a good thing and went ahead with supporting the drone strikes, they add up to only 20, which is a much smaller number than the one estimated by the American academics.

I would also like to mention that Pew’s questionnaire is deficient in several ways. For instance, some key questions about drones are convoluted while other questions force respondents to either support or oppose the drone attacks. The questionnaire does not allow respondents to declare indifference, i.e., neither support nor oppose drone strikes, which may be the reason why so many chose the option ‘Don’t Know’ or refused to answer the question. I am of the view that the ‘Don’t know’ option in the data set is capturing ignorance of, indifference to, and the refusal to answer questions about drone attacks. Thus, the data set imposes restrictions on one’s ability to infer from it.


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Drones propel hate in Pakistan for the U.S.

http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/drones-propel-hate-in-pakistan-for-the-u-s.premium-1.484185

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Drones and Our National Religion

http://warisacrime.org/content/drones-and-our-national-religion

The national religion of the United States of America is nationalism. Its god is the flag. Its prayer is the pledge of allegiance. The flag's powers include those of life and death, powers formerly possessed by traditional religions. Its myths are built around the sacrifice of lives to protect against the evils outside the nation. Its heroes are soldiers who make such sacrifices based on unquestioning faith. A "Dream Act" that would give citizenship to those immigrants who kill or die for the flag embodies the deepest dreams of flag worship. Its high priest is the Commander in Chief. Its slaughter of infidels is not protection of a nation otherwise engaged, but an act that in itself completely constitutes the nation as it is understood by its devotees. If the nation stopped killing it would cease to be.

What happens to myths like these when we discover that flying killer robots make better soldiers than soldiers do? Or when we learn that the president is using those flying robots to kill U.S. citizens? Which beliefs do we jettison to reduce the dissonance in our troubled brains? Some 85% of U.S.ians, and shrinking rapidly, are theists. Flag worship may be on the decline as well, but its numbers are still high. A majority supports a ban on flag burning. A majority supports the power of the president to kill non-U.S.ians with drones, while a significantly smaller percentage supports the president's power to kill U.S. citizens with drones abroad. That is to say, if the high priest declares someone an enemy of god, many people believe he should have the power to kill that enemy . . . unless that enemy is a U.S. citizen. In secular terms, which make this reality seem all the crazier, many of us support acts of murder based on the citizenship of the victim.

Of course, the Commander in Chief kills U.S. citizens all the time by sending them into wars. Drones don't change that. Drone pilots have committed suicide. Drone pilots have been targeted and killed by retaliatory suicide bombings. Drones have killed U.S. citizens through accidental "friendly" fire. The hostility that drones are generating abroad has motivated terrorist attacks and attempted attacks abroad and within the national borders of the United States.

But feeding corpses to our holy flag looks different when we're feeding them directly to the president's flying robots without a foreign intermediary. And yet to approximately a quarter of the U.S. public it doesn't look different after all. The president, in their own view, should have the power to kill them, or at least the power to kill anyone (including U.S. citizens) so contaminated as to be standing outside the United States of America -- a frightening and primitive realm that many U.S.ians have never visited and feel no need to ever visit.

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Recommendations

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Cheney backs Obama on drones [View all] Gentle-man Feb 2013 OP
The man... ReRe Feb 2013 #1
darth cheney probably bought up ALL the model airplane companies :) Sunlei Feb 2013 #50
This is a sure sign.... AnneD Feb 2013 #2
Exactly. TDale313 Feb 2013 #4
+1 nt Live and Learn Feb 2013 #77
Good news: Obama finally gets his due from Cheney! MotherPetrie Feb 2013 #3
WTF!? Cheney sure popped out of his hidey-hole They_Live Feb 2013 #5
this worries me.... samsingh Feb 2013 #6
The left backs Obama on drones. Redfairen Feb 2013 #7
Yep, undeniable, good point. montanto Feb 2013 #8
No. It doesn't. davidthegnome Feb 2013 #10
...is a shit statement. About the only people speaking out are on the left. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #11
Exactly and how many are ignoring the lawsuit against Obama admin? Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #43
This leftist supports the drones. n/t cosmicone Feb 2013 #14
...because they're aimed at Pakistanis. Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #15
No. Because they're aimed at terrorists cosmicone Feb 2013 #27
So we are on board with the war on terror? Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #44
Yeah, but jihadist terrorists have a particular tactic they developped for decades. Amonester Feb 2013 #47
terrorists are usually men, not monks. They have woman and children, families. Sunlei Feb 2013 #55
That's one reason, and the other is, in the case of many Afghano-Pakistanis, Amonester Feb 2013 #58
How could they be disarmed? Sunlei Feb 2013 #60
More like deterred than disarmed, sadely. Amonester Feb 2013 #61
You don't know anything about Pakistan, Ash_F Feb 2013 #57
I don't know anything about Pakistan? cosmicone Feb 2013 #67
The point of these killings is the opposite of your solution. Ash_F Feb 2013 #72
Did you read what I wrote? cosmicone Feb 2013 #74
You really need to do some reading Ash_F Feb 2013 #75
Oh brother cosmicone Feb 2013 #76
Wow that's wrong. I guess you need someone to hold your hand Ash_F Feb 2013 #82
Old news .. you need recent literature cosmicone Feb 2013 #83
Nothing in those articles is counter to anything I've said, nor do they verify what you have said Ash_F Feb 2013 #86
This leftist sees your drone support and raises you... EastKYLiberal Feb 2013 #20
good thing the sun gives free energy and after the plants use the free energy it's there for humans. Sunlei Feb 2013 #56
and this leftist DOESN'T shanti Feb 2013 #32
I know what you mean! They are awesome! Pterodactyl Feb 2013 #78
Add me to your list of those who speak out against this barbarism n/t SylviaD Feb 2013 #87
The same ones will back SS cuts and the Keystone XL Doctor_J Feb 2013 #89
Okay, people, seriously... davidthegnome Feb 2013 #9
Let's have us a big drone-stroking circle jerk! Who's invited? Comrade Grumpy Feb 2013 #12
you forget a huge player: John Brennan, aka the royal executioner Mutatis Mutandis Feb 2013 #18
I'm wondering if these guys may also have something to do with it reorg Feb 2013 #81
I would find some more interlinking articles, and make that an OP Mutatis Mutandis Feb 2013 #84
Cheney is an imminent threat The Second Stone Feb 2013 #13
How so? He's not even in office anymore. What can he do to us? Pterodactyl Feb 2013 #79
really? i am sure he wants obama to invade yemen + syria. pansypoo53219 Feb 2013 #16
I back Obama on drone use too. But Cheneny also wants troops on the ground right? Sunlei Feb 2013 #17
"I bet the countries that give the USA permission to root out the terrorists like the drones better" Mutatis Mutandis Feb 2013 #21
I know war is a terrible thing it is hell. I hate what Bush started, he made the USA a FAT target! Sunlei Feb 2013 #23
Both of bin Laden's fatwas against the USA where written well before that POS Bush became POTUS Mutatis Mutandis Feb 2013 #28
what would you suggest we do? Sunlei Feb 2013 #31
end the empiric wars, use fair trade, not guns, nationalise the Fed, break up the too-big-to-fail Mutatis Mutandis Feb 2013 #33
I like you. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2013 #38
that's a long list :) Sunlei Feb 2013 #49
btw, thank you for at least asking, I really appreciate it Mutatis Mutandis Feb 2013 #34
after shock and awe when bush beat his chest on that ship, mann did that make them hate the usa more Sunlei Feb 2013 #52
by "most countries" do you mean most of the people there? or their supreme leader? Gentle-man Feb 2013 #36
Interesting question. ForgoTheConsequence Feb 2013 #45
In many of those countries 90% or more can't read or write, so their Leaders control thebit of media Sunlei Feb 2013 #53
Thanks for explaining that in your mind, a country is the same as its leader Gentle-man Feb 2013 #63
why do you deflect from cheney the war criminal loves the killer drones, so Obama must be a bad man Sunlei Feb 2013 #64
Your argument evolved, and I don't blame you Gentle-man Feb 2013 #65
Hibby is that you? Sunlei Feb 2013 #69
Message auto-removed Gentle-man Feb 2013 #70
congrats! DU has an ignore list and you've won first position. Sunlei Feb 2013 #71
Message auto-removed Gentle-man Feb 2013 #73
I support the use of Drones John2 Feb 2013 #35
Yup. that's where the DU Drone Murder Fan Club is right now Doctor_J Feb 2013 #19
If Cheney likes this Third Doctor Feb 2013 #22
Cheney is a citizen of Dubai,yet he has closed door meetings with our Congress. Sunlei Feb 2013 #30
Greeaatt, that's all we need . . . aggiesal Feb 2013 #24
It's a sign mr. president obama2terms Feb 2013 #25
well now ain't bi-partisanship grand azurnoir Feb 2013 #26
This message was self-deleted by its author devilgrrl Feb 2013 #29
If Cheney supports it then you know it's wrong especially when he's rachel1 Feb 2013 #37
Would love to see the right wing DU trolls explain this one Ash_F Feb 2013 #39
Proof that this is wrong. eom MyNameGoesHere Feb 2013 #40
And there you have it n/t Puzzledtraveller Feb 2013 #41
And that's all you need to know FiveGoodMen Feb 2013 #42
LOL! OnyxCollie Feb 2013 #46
I guess this could be called one of those.... DeSwiss Feb 2013 #48
Cheney loves his "smart" weaponry. liberalmuse Feb 2013 #51
Well Im sure Darth Cheney never met a drone he didnt love.. DCBob Feb 2013 #54
I suspect the truth is more like "as long as it was aimed at" Amonester Feb 2013 #59
Cheney and Obama see eye-2-eye on illegal "extra-judicial" killings by "Leader of the Free World" panzerfaust Feb 2013 #62
Creepy, seriously creepy. undeterred Feb 2013 #66
Reason enough to oppose it. alarimer Feb 2013 #68
Like I needed another reason to be opposed. nt NoGOPZone Feb 2013 #80
in other news, Lee Harvey Oswald backs NRA position on gun control... yurbud Feb 2013 #85
Time to start calling the pro-drone-murder DUers Doctor_J Feb 2013 #88
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