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onenote

(46,350 posts)
54. As an individual I also am more limited in how far and wide I can spread my message compared
Thu Feb 28, 2013, 04:57 PM
Feb 2013

to other individuals. There are individuals out there that, as indviduals, have more resources than many "corporate" entities. Donald Trump, as an individual, has resources that dwarf the resources of Democratic Underground.

I agree that the amount of resources one has impacts how "much" speech one can engage in. Thus it has always been. Someone who can afford a computer has more ability to disseminate their messge than someone without a computer. Someone who can afford a sound truck has more abilty to disseminate their message than someone who only has a soapbox in the public square.

It appears that we are in agreement that CU was wrongly decided. As for why it was wrongly decided, I'm not sure if we are in agreement or not. If you are saying it was wrongly decided because (a) corporate entities shouldn't have first amendment rights or (b) expenditures of money should never be considered the exercise of free speech, then we agree that decision was wrongly decided but disagree on why. We are much better off with a first amendment that applies to corporate entities as well as "natural" persons (otherwise we'd have lost the Claiborne Hardware case, the Hustler/Falwell case, the Pentagon Papers case and on and on). And we are much better off with expenditures to disseminate a message being treated as a form of protected speech (otherwise the government could bar donations by DU or the expenditure of funds by DU to create this website).

What the court got wrong -- very wrong -- in CU was its rejection of long standing precedent holding not only that expenditures by individuals can be limited, but that expenditures by corporations can be limited to a greater degree than those made by individuals. Not because neither has first amendment rights or that expenditures are not protected speech, but because there are substantial governmental interests served by limiting such expenditures and the interests differ based on whether the entity involved is a person or a corporation.

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0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Corporations do not have free-speech rights Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #1
'Corporations are people my friend.' nt onehandle Feb 2013 #2
You are wrong, of course. And its a good thing that you are wrong. onenote Feb 2013 #10
Except that.... Veilex Feb 2013 #13
No, not "except that" onenote Feb 2013 #19
Except that... Veilex Feb 2013 #51
Corporations can and are sued for defamation too onenote Feb 2013 #52
Having more opportunity... Veilex Feb 2013 #53
As an individual I also am more limited in how far and wide I can spread my message compared onenote Feb 2013 #54
I have no issues Veilex Feb 2013 #55
Citizens United was not legislation. It struck down legislation. onenote Mar 2013 #58
Either way, Veilex Mar 2013 #59
Why is money speech? Orrex Feb 2013 #14
So would you be okay with a law that said onenote Feb 2013 #17
Explain to me why money is speech. Orrex Feb 2013 #18
I just explained that regulation of speech is and always has been permissible if justified by a onenote Feb 2013 #21
In a word, sure. Why not? Orrex Feb 2013 #23
Ha! Because money talks!!!!! nt valerief Feb 2013 #24
Never heard the expression, "Money Talks"? Javaman Feb 2013 #50
Still, I have a hard time with money = speech. AllyCat Feb 2013 #20
Which is why limits on contributions should be constitutional onenote Feb 2013 #22
That's an interesting way to put it, and I may have misunderstood you previously Orrex Feb 2013 #27
You tell me how a corporation talks without a PERSON interrupting Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #28
Corporations have privileges that are and should be defined by federal and state laws. NYC Liberal Feb 2013 #57
They do if the SCOTUS says they do. nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #44
When a corporation gives live birth at the hospital to a baby corporation, AndyA Feb 2013 #3
The female corporation is the one with boobs. groundloop Feb 2013 #7
Alerting ...for using the words "boobs" and "dicks". L0oniX Feb 2013 #9
Alerting on you for the same reason. You know, using those words. rhett o rick Feb 2013 #45
Ok ...I will alert on myself. BREAKING NEWS: results are below... L0oniX Feb 2013 #48
If you dont behave I am going to meta and calling you out. rhett o rick Feb 2013 #49
But A "Lorena Bobbitt" Corporation Has Neither n/t DallasNE Feb 2013 #15
Corporate Supreme Court Won't Hear Appeal Over Corporate Campaign Contributions jsr Feb 2013 #4
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ L0oniX Feb 2013 #8
Um . . . markpkessinger Feb 2013 #32
You're absolutely right. jsr Feb 2013 #42
In reality a such ban was UPHELD. alp227 Feb 2013 #41
I am surprised. Why arent you? Or did I misunderstand something? nm rhett o rick Feb 2013 #46
Corporations aren't people - they're giant profit-obsessed monsters pretending to be people. reformist2 Feb 2013 #5
They are legal entities, existing only paper and they exist for the sole purpose ProfessionalLeftist Feb 2013 #25
You have described one category of corporation. onenote Feb 2013 #33
There was talk in the past . . . aggiesal Feb 2013 #31
When one is Scalded Nun Feb 2013 #6
Clear as Mud! anokaflash Feb 2013 #11
I take it you haven't read the decision onenote Feb 2013 #16
It was a stupid ass decision Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #30
This message was self-deleted by its author onenote Feb 2013 #34
Same question: have you read the decision? onenote Feb 2013 #36
Not all of it Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #39
Why do you think it was a "stupid ass" decision? onenote Feb 2013 #40
I was talking about the CU decision Angry Dragon Feb 2013 #43
Ok.No disagreement there. Thanks for clarifying onenote Feb 2013 #47
So Corruption Still Needs To Occur At Arms Length DallasNE Feb 2013 #12
Is this ruling good or bad for us? nt brush Feb 2013 #26
Good...eom Kolesar Feb 2013 #29
Some commenters don't seem to understand the import of this . . . markpkessinger Feb 2013 #35
I agree that your interpretation is correct. However.... groundloop Feb 2013 #37
Agreed . . . markpkessinger Feb 2013 #38
What's the point of this century-old ban Blue_Tires Feb 2013 #56
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