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The Stranger

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60. Timothy McVeigh doesn't count (he's the wrong color)

Tue Mar 5, 2013, 07:10 PM

Mar 2013

The two possible examples of such "extraordinary" circumstances were the attack on Pearl Harbor and the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Just in case you were wondering.

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Obama Administration Says President Can Use Lethal Force Against Americans on US Soil [View all] WilliamPitt Mar 2013 OP

And an informed, high-level official will decide jsr Mar 2013 #1

That makes me feel soooo much better. nt awoke_in_2003 Mar 2013 #77

If this is true, then the Obama admin should start with the republicants in congress! TheDebbieDee Mar 2013 #87

Yes, one as well informed as these: AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #93

yeah, dtom67 Mar 2013 #152

Work backward: DC needed every rancid piece of legislation they passed since 9/11 to get to this blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #154

Or ... GeorgeGist Mar 2013 #160

I don't always agree with you but I certainly do on that post. Nihil Mar 2013 #161

So, Obama really does have death panels? n/t fasttense Mar 2013 #157

just great In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #183

Could Congressional Republicans be declared Enemy combatants? Katashi_itto Mar 2013 #186

US Marshals, the FBI and a couple other agencies cliffordu Mar 2013 #2

Agree but this is significantly different in my opinion.... Swede Atlanta Mar 2013 #13

Well written and I will think about what you have posted - cliffordu Mar 2013 #14

Obama was the Lesser evil Stewland Mar 2013 #41

Did you actually read Holder's letter to Rand Paul? struggle4progress Mar 2013 #155

Bonnie and Clyde were killed in a firefight with local law enforcement officials struggle4progress Mar 2013 #29

No one wanted to take them alive. cliffordu Mar 2013 #31

That may well be the case, but I wasn't there, as it was all before my time, struggle4progress Mar 2013 #46

From all accounts, because they were folk heroes among many of the poor, cliffordu Mar 2013 #50

In any case, neither FBI nor US Marshalls were responsible for the events of 23 May '34 struggle4progress Mar 2013 #58

This is true, although cliffordu Mar 2013 #67

Actually, Bonnie and Clyde were ambushed Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #145

See my #46 upthread struggle4progress Mar 2013 #146

The newsreel about the ambush implied that the Federal posse just started shooting Art_from_Ark Mar 2013 #147

It was eighty years ago; I'm no expert on the subject; and accounts differ struggle4progress Mar 2013 #156

But this is the President of the United States with a whole hell of a lot different accountability! riderinthestorm Mar 2013 #66

Well...OK - my take is more cynical than that. The government as a whole has the ability cliffordu Mar 2013 #70

I actually agree you. Its the fact they are acknowledging that accountability is for shit riderinthestorm Mar 2013 #91

Cue Tricky Dick... slackmaster Mar 2013 #3

Mr Obama has nowhere adopted Mr Nixon's view, argued by St Clair before the Supreme Court, struggle4progress Mar 2013 #23

I can't believe nobody sees what he's doing. sofa king Mar 2013 #196

Facts should precede analysis, but you would it the other way around struggle4progress Mar 2013 #197

Here's a tip for you. sofa king Mar 2013 #198

Please forgive my snippiness. sofa king Mar 2013 #201

You could be right. I regard your post as plausible, although uncertainty rules the day. (NT) proverbialwisdom Mar 2013 #200

Was this even a question, "Whiskey Rebellion" anybody? SpartanDem Mar 2013 #4

Or the Civil War. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #10

Rand Paul didn't see that on Faux, so it never happened. freshwest Mar 2013 #42

Ugly. Unacceptable. Beyond fucking disappointing. AzDar Mar 2013 #5

+1 rachel1 Mar 2013 #69

Constitutional Professor tblue Mar 2013 #6

"Scholar." HA! blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #153

So, if I flip off a drone flying overhead, my neighborhood will not get blown up, as a result? RC Mar 2013 #7

I haven't ever seen any reports of Americans being offed by Mr Obama for flipping the bird struggle4progress Mar 2013 #26

everybody else can... stillcool Mar 2013 #8

Exactly, how many good Americans are storing up weapons to fight Heather MC Mar 2013 #71

To all those getting worked up about this: geek tragedy Mar 2013 #9

imagine GRENADE Mar 2013 #11

Lincoln was a Republican. And he did use it. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #12

I think you know what Grenade means... Jeff In Milwaukee Mar 2013 #15

Necessarily deny? The right to repel an armed attack against the US has never been geek tragedy Mar 2013 #17

I'm not disagreeing with you... Jeff In Milwaukee Mar 2013 #22

Civilian authorities can't repel a catastrophic armed attack. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #28

lincoln GRENADE Mar 2013 #159

All presidents have ALWAYS had this power SpartanDem Mar 2013 #18

Grenade donnasgirl Mar 2013 #64

if a republican pretzeldent would not have this power available and wanted to have it Amonester Mar 2013 #135

Lincoln did more than voilate it, he shredded the Constitution Ter Mar 2013 #20

Worst president ever!!!! nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #21

Oh hush you... Jeff In Milwaukee Mar 2013 #24

He's up there Ter Mar 2013 #194

Yeah, Lincoln John2 Mar 2013 #45

Lincoln declared martial law during a civil war . . . another_liberal Mar 2013 #75

Or the rioters in NYC. nt Javaman Mar 2013 #163

In cases of invasion, or armed rebellion, when the usual instruments of the lawful civil government struggle4progress Mar 2013 #16

+100 JoePhilly Mar 2013 #76

Yeah, we can't allow an armed overthrow of the US government or anything, now can we. yodermon Mar 2013 #19

I'm starting to understand why US citizens are hoarding high power weapons. Not what I voted Purveyor Mar 2013 #25

It says we can actually read the English language. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #27

In neither of the cases that Holder so conveniently presented were the perps 'American citizens'. Purveyor Mar 2013 #33

Shooting down the planes on 9/11 would have meant blowing up geek tragedy Mar 2013 #36

No, you've been 'played' by this administration for supporting this policy. Carry on, indeed. eom Purveyor Mar 2013 #55

What policy? Sorry, there's not a single credible constitutional geek tragedy Mar 2013 #59

This message was self-deleted by its author Purveyor Mar 2013 #65

Yeah. Those lashes are shredding your pom poms. Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #37

No, I just value accuracy over poutrage. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #39

No, you just value personality over principal. Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #52

Tell us which language from Holder's letter, given the specific geek tragedy Mar 2013 #54

Tell us the language from Holders letter Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #109

What you do not understand is that every President has had the authority to geek tragedy Mar 2013 #116

Nutzies hoard weapon cuz they are nutzy struggle4progress Mar 2013 #97

Considering the headlines, why would this not encourage them?... Purveyor Mar 2013 #102

It's pointless to try to understand the thought processes of wackos struggle4progress Mar 2013 #107

And the first time they do this, they will lose my support. kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #30

They you need only go back a few weeks - because the FBI used lethal force on the Alabama 24601 Mar 2013 #44

So you've never supported any US president then? jeff47 Mar 2013 #202

You would be all be screaming if the Bush administration said this alarimer Mar 2013 #32

^^^THIS^^^ +1000 eom Purveyor Mar 2013 #34

Hypocrisy thy name is reagan democrat. Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #35

The downfall is people too stupid to pick history books SpartanDem Mar 2013 #43

Wow. Spitting out your cheerios over my post? Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #47

The Posse Comitatus Act. SpartanDem Mar 2013 #62

Nice wiki cut and paste. Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #111

Nice deflection. SpartanDem Mar 2013 #140

Posse comitatus forbid the use of the armed forces for law enforcement, not geek tragedy Mar 2013 #63

You haven't boned up enough in the 16 minutes Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #113

If he had ordered the shooting down of Flight 93, yes I would have supported that. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #120

John Yoo approves. OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #130

It all depends John2 Mar 2013 #61

rand paul is the fetid dropping from his libertarian asshole of a father. Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #115

Lincoln did it. Heck, George Washington personally led an army geek tragedy Mar 2013 #38

So I guess Washington was a criminal for putting down the Whiskey Rebellion SpartanDem Mar 2013 #40

So I guess you don't keep up with history. Jakes Progress Mar 2013 #49

@alarimer That's indisputable rachel1 Mar 2013 #51

++++100 840high Mar 2013 #68

Quiet you, what did I tell you about point out the obvious?huh??? Javaman Mar 2013 #164

Is the definition of "extraordinary circumstances" also at the discretion of the President? n/t hughee99 Mar 2013 #48

Well, who else would make that call in the middle of an ongoing armed attack? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #56

It's good to see that they've streamlined this to the point where hughee99 Mar 2013 #86

Who else has authority to authorize military action in immediate response geek tragedy Mar 2013 #88

Whoa, what is this "immediate response to an ongoing attack"? hughee99 Mar 2013 #96

The 9/11 or Pearl Harbor examples were not chosen by accident. nt geek tragedy Mar 2013 #101

Great, but two good "For instances" don't make any kind of actual guideline. hughee99 Mar 2013 #105

A guideline covering every possible hypothetical event? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #106

How about some sort of guideline laying out what's NOT covered? hughee99 Mar 2013 #114

Ruby Ridge was obviously not an extraordinary, catastrophic attack. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #119

Sorry, didn't see "catastrophic attack" just "circumstances" after hughee99 Mar 2013 #124

Holder used the language "catastrophic attack" geek tragedy Mar 2013 #125

He gave "catastrophic attack" as an example of when it might be used. hughee99 Mar 2013 #168

Actually, I do have a problem with that. Fortunately for me, that is explicitly geek tragedy Mar 2013 #169

The Coast Guard is already using drones, hughee99 Mar 2013 #170

I have no problem with the Coast Guard using drones to patrol the coast. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #171

I'm all for the coast guard using drones for such purposes (patrol) hughee99 Mar 2013 #172

Posse Comitatus has very limited exceptions. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #173

Again, Coast Guard drones. Posse Comitatus does not apply to the Coast Guard, hughee99 Mar 2013 #174

Coast Guard is a law enforcement agency as well as part geek tragedy Mar 2013 #175

Yes, and because of their law enforcement component, they are not subject to Posse Comitatus hughee99 Mar 2013 #176

Well, by that token police could kill someone and do so every day. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #179

I didn't realize Nebraska was on the coast. hughee99 Mar 2013 #181

If the President wants to murder someone, he can probably geek tragedy Mar 2013 #182

You now seem far less confident in your legal protections hughee99 Mar 2013 #184

The scary thing about laws is that they're only as good as the people geek tragedy Mar 2013 #185

GWB could have ordered jet fighters to shoot down the planes that flew into the WTC. Lint Head Mar 2013 #53

"Give a boy a stick and he'll find something that needs to be hit. nt" ladjf Mar 2013 #57

Timothy McVeigh doesn't count (he's the wrong color) The Stranger Mar 2013 #60

I had the same thought: What if Bill Clinton had a few minutes warning... Amonester Mar 2013 #139

American citizens were involved in the attack on Pearl Harbor . . .? another_liberal Mar 2013 #72

(-)<>(-) Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #78

Well . . . another_liberal Mar 2013 #118

Stimson, Marshall, McCloy, Lovett, and Bundy were Americans Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #158

Discussed or facts presented? nt Javaman Mar 2013 #165

I've read some books . . . another_liberal Mar 2013 #192

Rall Mutatis Mutandis Mar 2013 #73

Worse then anything bush proposed... bowens43 Mar 2013 #74

He's declared himself King FiveGoodMen Mar 2013 #79

That claim requires better evidence than yet another Rand Paul tantrum struggle4progress Mar 2013 #110

thank goodness that he'll be president for life.. frylock Mar 2013 #80

Ted Nugent and Rush Limbaugh should be looking skyward, ROFL! 4bucksagallon Mar 2013 #81

So President Bush-43 would have the authority to use military force against Americans on US soil? AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #82

41 and Nixon had that authority as CiC SpartanDem Mar 2013 #89

Yes, Bush had the authority to shoot down the airliners on 9/11 geek tragedy Mar 2013 #103

This president is different from all other presidents in that he is the only one - ever - to claim AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #137

Overseas (tribal Yemen) and within the US are two entirely different legal and factual situations. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #138

How about B�ll Clinton had the same authority to kill Timothy McVeigh just minutes before... Amonester Mar 2013 #141

How about Richard Nixon who had an "enemies list" of those who criticized him? AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #142

1. You didn't answer the question (yet). Amonester Mar 2013 #144

Why would you ask me, "How about B�ll Clinton had the same authority to kill Timothy McVeigh AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #148

I don't agree with it. But I live in reality. Amonester Mar 2013 #149

You can even go back further. Washington-1 used this authority to put down the Whiskey Rebellion. jeff47 Mar 2013 #203

This message was self-deleted by its author damnedifIknow Mar 2013 #83

Rand Paul, spare me the drama queen routine Politicub Mar 2013 #84

"The justice department policy allows killing of bonafide criminals" FiveGoodMen Mar 2013 #128

Like I said, I take the policy at face value Politicub Mar 2013 #162

Don't give a rat's ass what Paul says FiveGoodMen Mar 2013 #180

"Dr" Paul, if Obama had an "R" instead of a "D," you would support this. Hypocritical asshole! Nanjing to Seoul Mar 2013 #85

If it happens, impeachment would be a good move Blandocyte Mar 2013 #90

Not sure why we focus on the method rather than the action. Paul E Ester Mar 2013 #92

What the fuck are you talking about? struggle4progress Mar 2013 #94

Seriously! mimi85 Mar 2013 #133

No. And no one beyond you is making that claim. jeff47 Mar 2013 #204

Wait, THOSE were his examples? Pearl Harbor, which Truman had advance notice and declined to act... DRoseDARs Mar 2013 #95

Harry Truman wasn't even VP until Jan '45 and only became POTUS in Apr '45 struggle4progress Mar 2013 #99

My timeline was wrong I fess up to that, but the debate about the government's foreknowledge is real DRoseDARs Mar 2013 #100

You have simply moved from a weird attack on Truman to a vaguer weird attack on "the government" struggle4progress Mar 2013 #104

I have done no such thing, but please continue condescending. As much as I loathe doing this, here: DRoseDARs Mar 2013 #108

So you're pushing a conspiracy theory struggle4progress Mar 2013 #112

If you're going to dismiss it out-of-hand because of one word, then this isn't worth our time. DRoseDARs Mar 2013 #117

You provided a link to a Wikileaks page that discusses a hodge-podge of conspiracy theories, struggle4progress Mar 2013 #122

Wasn't aware Wikileaks.org existed before it was registered in 2006, or that Wikipedia = Wikileaks. DRoseDARs Mar 2013 #123

Thanks for the correction. Dumb typo struggle4progress Mar 2013 #127

As was mine. We're family here, let's just agree to disagree. I've respected you a long time... DRoseDARs Mar 2013 #129

Why not, when we still have torture camps, criminal banks and 2 sets of laws just1voice Mar 2013 #98

It's a good thing Obama is good instead of evil, or this would be something to worry about. Pterodactyl Mar 2013 #121

Hear that teabaggers? Renew Deal Mar 2013 #126

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime,... Deep13 Mar 2013 #131

Feel free to register at Free Republic based on a letter you didn't bother geek tragedy Mar 2013 #167

The correct answer is... Deep13 Mar 2013 #187

Problem is the constitution doesn't flatly prohibit it in all cases. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #188

"No person...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law..." nt Deep13 Mar 2013 #189

So, police may never use lethal force? geek tragedy Mar 2013 #190

the police example is personal self-defense,... Deep13 Mar 2013 #191

"Due process" certainly involves a lot of wiggle room. geek tragedy Mar 2013 #193

The President's authority is one thing... davidthegnome Mar 2013 #132

We're returning to the days when the military was used to put down strikes. That wasn't so long ago leveymg Mar 2013 #134

Preparing for the Hour of Need: Emergency Powers in the United States OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #136

The article, like Rand Paul, completely misrepresents Holder's response: struggle4progress Mar 2013 #143

Monsieur Holder, Talk is Cheap harkonen Mar 2013 #150

9/11 was a handy excuse. blkmusclmachine Mar 2013 #151

Well this opens the door for some future nut bag prez. nt Javaman Mar 2013 #166

look how the bush gang was ready to down planes filled with innocents, we're lucky canda let them in Sunlei Mar 2013 #177

Well, well, isn't that comforting? Beacool Mar 2013 #178

Listening to Thom Hartmann today and reading friend's twitter about drones killing Obama voters alp227 Mar 2013 #195

state murder laws still apply. nt quadrature Mar 2013 #199