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libdude

(136 posts)

32. Reality check

Fri Mar 15, 2013, 10:03 PM

Mar 2013

Having worked many years with convicted felons, two facts stood out,
I can count on one hand the number of times that a straight out admission of guilt was made.
The second fact is to minimize the crime. In otherwords, it was all trumped up, it was a set up, things just sort of blew up.
I don't buy this self serving story that it did'nt look like rape. This allows the witnesses, their.parents, the people that had knowledge of this crime and the accused to explain away a serious criminal act, to minimize it.
This all victimizes the victim again and again.
If these defendants are found guilty, they should be shown no leniency, to do so will do them no favors.
As I was instructed many years ago, criminal behavior is basically a disregard for the rights of others.

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Steubenville Rape Trial: "These kids didn't know what they were seeing was rape," says advocate [View all] bettyellen Mar 2013 OP

God, now *I* want to vomit ismnotwasm Mar 2013 #1

I'm skeptical. Did they really think . . . caseymoz Mar 2013 #2

I agree- but the article is about the kids witnessing it. And about ignorance about rape in general bettyellen Mar 2013 #12

I thought... levp Mar 2013 #3

They knew it was rape, and they knew it was wrong, and ignorance of the law is no excuse..... marble falls Mar 2013 #4

It's not about the perps- it's about the kids who witnessed it. bettyellen Mar 2013 #11

I know that. The witnesses who stood around gawking, cheering on and photograpging ... marble falls Mar 2013 #15

I agree-but to prevent this kind of inaction in the future- we have to educate the good kids bettyellen Mar 2013 #31

Bullshit. riqster Mar 2013 #56

cuddled? try EDUCATED and HELD ACCOUNTABLE. bettyellen Mar 2013 #60

I think that is the story they tell to get out of trouble. riqster Mar 2013 #61

you do know there were loads of kids that witnessed nothing but her drunken stumbling? bettyellen Mar 2013 #64

Again, I think you are too kind riqster Mar 2013 #71

No good kids were involved in this debacle, period. juajen Mar 2013 #69

Exactly. Thank you. uppityperson Mar 2013 #91

Uh, did you guys read the OP? Comrade Grumpy Mar 2013 #95

well I guess they do now huh azurnoir Mar 2013 #5

sucks iamthebandfanman Mar 2013 #6

They called it rape themselves that night qalex Mar 2013 #7

It's not about the perps- it's about the kids who witnessed it. bettyellen Mar 2013 #10

What's so hard for you to get: the witnesses are criminal, too. marble falls Mar 2013 #17

I was responding to a post that wrongly assumed the article was about the rapists, NOT the witnesses bettyellen Mar 2013 #19

Hey bettyellen! I though maybe there was a missed communication. I enjoy your posts when I get to .. marble falls Mar 2013 #24

no problem- I think it's true many suspected it was rape, but her own friends were not certain bettyellen Mar 2013 #27

True. But in that this girl was the only girl there, did everybody think this was consensual? .... marble falls Mar 2013 #36

I think most of the physical stuff happened in a smaller group, and there was gossip bettyellen Mar 2013 #44

i agree. all of them knew. the coaches house they were at knew. the friends knew. seabeyond Mar 2013 #57

Here is the first line of the article, talking about those who saw the rape. uppityperson Mar 2013 #93

I think they are still working exboyfil Mar 2013 #105

Which is exactly what qalex keeps posting, adding a voice that sounds like this person is not only tpsbmam Mar 2013 #50

many MORE kids witnessed her stumbling but not the rape... the OP is about them. bettyellen Mar 2013 #67

but betty, many were seeing the pictures and video of a passed out girl being assaulted. nt seabeyond Mar 2013 #68

Do we know how many of the 50 kids saw? bettyellen Mar 2013 #112

Wrong. First line in the article "As she listens to the testimony of witness after witness who saw.. uppityperson Mar 2013 #92

Well, it certainly became about them after 10pm when you edited it and added that element in qalex Mar 2013 #97

I clarified because people mistakenly thought it was about the rapists themselves. bettyellen Mar 2013 #110

Well said, and welcome to DU! alp227 Mar 2013 #37

Thank you. qalex Mar 2013 #46

I give credit to the angry guys and wonder if they created the blog Anonymous found? freshwest Mar 2013 #38

I think they did know.... Kalidurga Mar 2013 #8

It's not about the perps- it's about the kids who witnessed it. bettyellen Mar 2013 #9

I think many of them knew as well. Kalidurga Mar 2013 #13

only a few saw the acts, but most saw her completely incapacitated and should know bettyellen Mar 2013 #18

The witnesses were the ones on record as calling it rape that night, not the accused qalex Mar 2013 #14

her own friends questioned what went on- and did not help. It's a bit more complex than you'd bettyellen Mar 2013 #29

Erm, I'm following the case, and her friends weren't present. qalex Mar 2013 #35

her friends were following tweets, FB posts and hearing about it that night, and she had to explain bettyellen Mar 2013 #58

She wasn't in contact with her friends until the next day qalex Mar 2013 #96

i can see lots of reason they did that. and how better to unconsciously protect oneself when being seabeyond Mar 2013 #59

yes, but only knowledge will empower them to know what the right thing is bettyellen Mar 2013 #62

i can agree with this. but... i cant give a lot of slack. thinking back to a kid.... what would seabeyond Mar 2013 #66

the OP is about the hapless people who saw her stumble and heard rumors bettyellen Mar 2013 #70

we literally live in a culture where this kind of entertainment is a norm for our kids and all the seabeyond Mar 2013 #72

if she had any chance at all, it was destroyed by the stupid messages that kids get, yes... bettyellen Mar 2013 #74

What about these 2 who did witness the rape yet didn't look at it as rape? uppityperson Mar 2013 #94

and her two "friends" who apparently think it was no big deal- she asked for it by consenting to bettyellen Mar 2013 #116

Yes - it was planned and carried out by a cruel, callous group. freshwest Mar 2013 #39

This is so effed up Blandocyte Mar 2013 #16

the coaches who hosted should be held accountable. bettyellen Mar 2013 #77

OMG! like a dead body ... that's wonderful. Just fuggin' wonderful! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #20

Ain't it though? They don't look too worried in court: freshwest Mar 2013 #33

It's a good damn thing that I cannot go there! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #40

I hear you! freshwest Mar 2013 #43

My anger against these rapist is a personal one. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #45

I can't say much on a public message board. But I doubt they'd listen to a survivor. freshwest Mar 2013 #47

I can say that I think Rush is disgusting. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #49

Me, too. riqster Mar 2013 #75

I meant exactly what I said: In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #99

Bless you for the good work you do riqster Mar 2013 #101

Please keep this first and foremost in your mind: Do No Harm To Yourself! In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #102

Thank you again riqster Mar 2013 #104

No problem. In_The_Wind Mar 2013 #107

Why did that article put Victim in scare quotes? AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #76

The hell they didn't know. Brigid Mar 2013 #21

i think they suspect, but want to believe otherwise.... bettyellen Mar 2013 #23

The most successful reduction strategy qalex Mar 2013 #42

Thanks for adding that info and welcome to DU! tpsbmam Mar 2013 #51

we know about the witnesses who called it rape - but there are 30-40 other kids there bettyellen Mar 2013 #53

They didn't witness anything. qalex Mar 2013 #90

THIS!! >>the Bystander Effect posits that as unlikely unless the inherently wrong nature of what<<< bettyellen Mar 2013 #55

Horrible people. Absolutely horrible. Dawson Leery Mar 2013 #22

They knew exactly what they were doing and now they are fighting for their lives, benld74 Mar 2013 #25

yes, but it happened because too many witnesses were unsure WTH was going on.... bettyellen Mar 2013 #30

Agreed to that, then its the parents who don't teach their kids what to, benld74 Mar 2013 #109

But, but, but... spooky3 Mar 2013 #26

"rape" is not just a stranger in a dark alley with a knife. I am appalled that they think it is. uppityperson Mar 2013 #28

Reality check libdude Mar 2013 #32

it's really about the majority of witnesses who were too unsure of what was happening bettyellen Mar 2013 #34

They didn't know it was rape? Unknown Beatle Mar 2013 #41

they knew what was going on, iamthebandfanman Mar 2013 #48

good on you for doing that. bettyellen Mar 2013 #83

Is she an advocate or a moron.... Historic NY Mar 2013 #52

knowing about "getting you end wet", please. she is an advocate for more education... and if you bettyellen Mar 2013 #54

Part of the question... davidthegnome Mar 2013 #63

What a bunch of crap. Are they trying to say that this was a frequent juajen Mar 2013 #65

I get the impression that rape is a common thing in Steubenville siligut Mar 2013 #73

There were no innocent bystanders. PDJane Mar 2013 #78

who made an issue of consent? bettyellen Mar 2013 #79

That's what the defence is. That she consented. PDJane Mar 2013 #80

I meant in the OP. But thanks! bettyellen Mar 2013 #81

And pray tell, what the hell did they think that it was????? Beacool Mar 2013 #82

one last time, not at all about the rapists themselves, but about many kids at the party. bettyellen Mar 2013 #84

You're not listening. One more time. I did read the article. PDJane Mar 2013 #85

wasn't responding to you, but someone else commenting about the rapists themselves. bettyellen Mar 2013 #86

Katie Hanna chervilant Mar 2013 #87

Sorry, a lifetime of what if isn't enough. PDJane Mar 2013 #88

I agree completely. chervilant Mar 2013 #89

Lacking empathy does not mean you can't be moral Shivering Jemmy Mar 2013 #106

"Blaming the Victim" chervilant Mar 2013 #108

"Rape is Rape" - President Barack Obama Ash_F Mar 2013 #98

For those advocating charging witnesses to this heinous crime LTG Mar 2013 #100

WIsh I could say I were surprised. Threedifferentones Mar 2013 #103

I wonder if Whoopi considers this rape or "rape-rape"? marshall Mar 2013 #111

That's bullshit.These kids knew exactly what they were doing & r pitifully exposed to sex by age 10 judesedit Mar 2013 #113

It's not about the perps, but thanks! bettyellen Mar 2013 #114

A particularly hot corner of hell Doctor_J Mar 2013 #115

That's some seriously fucked up shit. winter is coming Mar 2013 #117

her friends turning against her as if she deserved it- have no clue what incapacitated is... bettyellen Mar 2013 #119

Aah Yes! I recognize the morality of the Bush years... cbrer Mar 2013 #118