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alp227

(33,339 posts)

182. Really? Let me break your points down

Mon Mar 25, 2013, 04:15 PM

Mar 2013

"If someone breaks into my house and decides they're gonna beat me or shoot me or steal all my shit, the outcome isn't going to change (not for the better anyway) because I have a gun."

I see all sorts of anecdotal evidence (local news stories, specifically) about burglars running away because they saw armed homeowners, in a web search of burglars scared off guns (keywords). You may be right about an armed homeowner making things worse. Let's say an armed robber broke in your home. If the robber wanted to avoid leaving evidence behind or cause a ruckus the robber would just use the weapon as intimidation rather than murder tool. However, if the homeowner were armed, then a firefight would happen both ways. Generally, shopkeepers, bank tellers, etc. are trained to just give up property or money to armed robbers. Arguably the same could apply to homeowners.

But do you not believe you would no-questions-asked use deadly force against a robber if the robber started harming you or your family members/co-habitants? Do you not believe in fighting back after getting punched or self-defense in general? What would you say about this local story of an elderly couple TIED UP by knife-wielding robbers?

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Highlight:

Teenager Mistakes Little Brother for Intruder, Shoots Him [View all] baldguy Mar 2013 OP

Well, if the 12 year old brother had only COLGATE4 Mar 2013 #1

His parents probably put the fear of God into him. busterbrown Mar 2013 #16

Hordes of 'dam' furriners' you mean... nt COLGATE4 Mar 2013 #18

That is my new response to all shootings ybbor Mar 2013 #21

My first thought, too. The NRA should be declared a public health emergency. McCamy Taylor Mar 2013 #24

God damn. nt Purveyor Mar 2013 #2

Immediately going on my FB page Divernan Mar 2013 #3

Gun culture + Fear culture = Shit like this alcibiades_mystery Mar 2013 #4

Guns go well with chattering teeth. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #42

+ struggle4progress Mar 2013 #130

That's quite an emotional load for this teenager to carry around for the rest of his life Submariner Mar 2013 #5

That was my first thought--that this teenager thucythucy Mar 2013 #43

guns usually kill family members or are used in suicides when used on a person markiv Mar 2013 #6

One in twenty two... Blanks Mar 2013 #23

depends on where you are markiv Mar 2013 #30

I live on earth. Blanks Mar 2013 #34

Did it ever occur to anyone to get out of the house? Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #45

I don't understand why anyone would want to shoot an intruder... Blanks Mar 2013 #65

What if the intruder had a GUN?????? alp227 Mar 2013 #67

What if no one had a gun? adieu Mar 2013 #71

Do you include cops in your scenario? N/t alp227 Mar 2013 #78

What part of "no one has a gun" adieu Mar 2013 #81

Face it. In the REAL WORLD, guns are sometimes NECESSARY. alp227 Mar 2013 #83

Bullshit. nt mimi85 Mar 2013 #94

Name me a war in the past 40 years adieu Mar 2013 #103

Citizens of most of the world's developed nations do not have guns primavera Mar 2013 #122

How far back are you looking? pipoman Mar 2013 #129

Sure, gun control is a relatively modern step in world history primavera Mar 2013 #131

Yeah and 80 years ago, when they needed them, they needed them immediately..n/t pipoman Mar 2013 #139

If no one had a gun, a strong man could still assault or violate a weaker person. Flatulo Mar 2013 #192

Get a grip. Blanks Mar 2013 #164

Really? Let me break your points down alp227 Mar 2013 #182

Twenty-two to one. Blanks Mar 2013 #185

That 22x figure has been disputed elsewhere on DU. alp227 Mar 2013 #186

I feel the way I do because of my own situation. Blanks Mar 2013 #187

It's blood sport. The home version. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #68

A good friend of mine Mojorabbit Mar 2013 #121

It's not always possible, or even desirable. Are there children sleeping upstairs? Flatulo Mar 2013 #119

+100 nt Mojorabbit Mar 2013 #120

I believe there are rape victims that will disagree that a burglary is the same thing. Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #140

Who said they're the same thing? I believe I said that having ones home invaded is a Flatulo Mar 2013 #142

"They should choose a less dangerous occupation." Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #143

I choose to live my life... not live in fear of pain or death. defacto7 Mar 2013 #147

Oh, I assure you I don't live in fear. Flatulo Mar 2013 #175

short reply... defacto7 Mar 2013 #178

I appreciate your civility, which is in short supply when the topic turns to guns. Flatulo Mar 2013 #179

You're an honest person... defacto7 Mar 2013 #189

You too, friend. Peace. Flatulo Mar 2013 #191

what exactly is a secure gun? samsingh Mar 2013 #168

Guns could be made safer if the manufacturers chose to do so. Flatulo Mar 2013 #180

the nra supports, encourages guns for children and youth samsingh Mar 2013 #193

Go away, troll. llmart Mar 2013 #108

how, exactly, is 'guns are most often kill family members or are used in suicides' markiv Mar 2013 #125

yes, i was confused by the other posters comment samsingh Mar 2013 #169

"Outnumbered"??? Zoeisright Mar 2013 #136

all I said was that a gun bought for safety LOWERS the safety of the home markiv Mar 2013 #160

How incredibly traumatic and heartbreaking for this family. timdog44 Mar 2013 #7

Not everyone who thinks "gun control" is misguided loves or owns guns. harmonicon Mar 2013 #8

Face it, guns are an evil that will always exist. alp227 Mar 2013 #54

How would a criminal have guns if no one had guns? harmonicon Mar 2013 #72

You still haven't acknowledged a black market. alp227 Mar 2013 #80

Umm... I don't know what you're not getting here. harmonicon Mar 2013 #84

I agree. mimi85 Mar 2013 #95

It's completely logically correct...but logic is just theory. sir pball Mar 2013 #102

The problem with Jenoch Mar 2013 #128

Will we have middle school metal shops? AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #145

Or...not everyone who owns guns thinks "gun control" is misguided. sir pball Mar 2013 #98

Well, I put "gun control" in quotes for a reason. harmonicon Mar 2013 #104

The whole protection thing is a real bother to me from both sides. sir pball Mar 2013 #114

If lawsuits truly are frivolous, they can be thrown out. harmonicon Mar 2013 #154

We can do both Politicub Mar 2013 #173

I wouldn't vote against someone because they'd voted for gun control legislation... harmonicon Mar 2013 #176

GOD DAMN! elleng Mar 2013 #9

Probably gun nut parents AgingAmerican Mar 2013 #10

A good friend of mine watched his dad accidentally shoot his mom when he was 12 proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #11

How horribly sad... mimi85 Mar 2013 #97

He's in his late 40s early 50s proud2BlibKansan Mar 2013 #105

I just had an uncivil discussion with a gun nut elsewhere, and he thinks all kids 11 and up mbperrin Mar 2013 #12

Call me an out of touch liberal, but I don't understand this mentality of shooting an intruder Hippo_Tron Mar 2013 #13

And if they see you sitting quietly, what do you think they are going to do? LisaL Mar 2013 #32

If you're alone, you could probably just get out of the house. Dash87 Mar 2013 #155

How can you possibly value the life of someone who would violently force their way into your Flatulo Mar 2013 #44

How can you possibly value your X-box or your TV over your own life? baldguy Mar 2013 #49

I don't. Anyone can have my X-box, TV or anything else I have. Flatulo Mar 2013 #70

um, a couple armed teenagers just shot a year-old baby in the face magical thyme Mar 2013 #101

So, you're saying the baby should have been carrying a weapon? baldguy Mar 2013 #106

Anyone broken enough to shoot a baby in the face is almost certainly on a path to wreak Flatulo Mar 2013 #107

Usually find out who was "the wrong hands" after the fact. Neoma Mar 2013 #115

Unfortunately that's true in many cases, but isn't it the case that many times the Flatulo Mar 2013 #116

I think neighbors sometimes say that to rationalize it. Neoma Mar 2013 #118

no. You claimed it's mean to shoot burglars over an x-box magical thyme Mar 2013 #109

For starters, teenagers cannot lawfully carry a pistol in that context. AtheistCrusader Mar 2013 #159

So.... mimi85 Mar 2013 #93

It's a highly personal decision. If the decision is made to keep firearms, there should be Flatulo Mar 2013 #96

Remember Michael Dukakis being asked about the death penalty alp227 Mar 2013 #56

This is a post on an internet message board, not a strategy session for the Democratic Party Hippo_Tron Mar 2013 #112

a little old lady's body was found dumped at a park near me last month BlancheSplanchnik Mar 2013 #66

There are substantially more thieves than murderers Hippo_Tron Mar 2013 #113

I always makes me feel, I dunno, proud, I guess, when I read about an elderly woman Flatulo Mar 2013 #123

I won't call you anything bad ... Straw Man Mar 2013 #146

In 2011 Roughly 5 per 100k people are murdered in the US Hippo_Tron Mar 2013 #165

It's definitely a judgment call. Straw Man Mar 2013 #170

In the real world there isn't sufficient time to assess the scenario Hippo_Tron Mar 2013 #188

Sometimes there is, and sometimes there isn't. Straw Man Mar 2013 #190

Florida again. I guess the kid was just standing his ground. It is his right, you know. BlueStreak Mar 2013 #14

Yeah, that's how I feel about it too. Blanks Mar 2013 #27

Significantly different facts in Fox news report. Divernan Mar 2013 #15

Well, which story is correct? busterbrown Mar 2013 #20

Yeah, the fox story is another story completely ybbor Mar 2013 #25

Are you sure you have the same story? riderinthestorm Mar 2013 #26

Both reported in the Orlando area/Orange county. Divernan Mar 2013 #29

Yup, just tragic. nt riderinthestorm Mar 2013 #40

Obviously I don't know for certain, but this seems like a different incident. nt ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #35

Sounds like two dead children to me. Thor_MN Mar 2013 #36

This is a completely different incident. Brickbat Mar 2013 #38

With so many gun tragedies, hard to keep em straight. Hoyt Mar 2013 #87

One happened in Polk County, the other Orange County struggle4progress Mar 2013 #132

Another Wonderful Tale Of Home Invasion Defense! onehandle Mar 2013 #17

Waiting for NRA/gun nut response... wtmusic Mar 2013 #19

They've been laying low recently, but buying more guns and conniving with their gun buddies. Hoyt Mar 2013 #60

You would have to hold your breath for one hour, 56 minutes if my calculations are correct. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2013 #126

Are We Safer Yet ??? WillyT Mar 2013 #22

If only it had been raining guns that day, this never would have happened. nt valerief Mar 2013 #28

NRA jumped the shark on Sandy Hook markiv Mar 2013 #31

So sad. nt ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #33

When I was a teenager I shot a hole in the wall WHEN CRABS ROAR Mar 2013 #37

That happens a lot, glad you were OK then and now. Hoyt Mar 2013 #61

I was 12 and on a frequent quail hunt dotymed Mar 2013 #86

WOW. The parents left a 16 year old in charge of the gun in the house? Mika Mar 2013 #39

I think the parents should be held criminally liable. A 16 year-old, more often than not, Flatulo Mar 2013 #46

I guess it all depends on where, and how, you were raised.. Ghost in the Machine Mar 2013 #110

Yup, rural areas have a tradition of hunting to put protein on the table. I had a Ruger 10-22 Flatulo Mar 2013 #117

The parents aren't victims, but both boys are AAO Mar 2013 #111

Stand by for the official NRA statement on this tragedy. TheCowsCameHome Mar 2013 #41

Another tragedy mike dub Mar 2013 #47

Rather than the fantasy of shooting an intruder, SCVDem Mar 2013 #48

"Rape doors" are commonplace in South Africa KamaAina Mar 2013 #62

I suspect the family in the OP may wish they had gone that option n/t Fumesucker Mar 2013 #91

I am sorry but I just don't have a lot of sympathy for avebury Mar 2013 #50

Shoot first then call 911..... Historic NY Mar 2013 #51

Life in America: Another day, another senseless shooting AndyA Mar 2013 #52

Police: Pa. Man Kills Son, Wounds Wife; Kills Self UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #53

And what you've posted here gives the lie to one COLGATE4 Mar 2013 #55

Oh yeah I forgot about the knife excuse ybbor Mar 2013 #63

Another case where a protection order didn't protect even with prior arrests... Historic NY Mar 2013 #57

HOW did this man obtain or retain a FIREARM??? It violates FEDERAL LAW.... happyslug Mar 2013 #181

Now ... only if cosmicone Mar 2013 #58

Always ID your target. ileus Mar 2013 #59

Thanks for standard gun cultist advice. Hoyt Mar 2013 #64

You don't recommend IDing your target? ileus Mar 2013 #69

I don't recommend living guns, and repeating such BS in your head like a Marine in training. Hoyt Mar 2013 #75

You don't have to be a Marine to believe in firearm safety. ileus Mar 2013 #79

I don't live my life preparing to shoot someone, or preparing for the best shot. Hoyt Mar 2013 #82

"Sometimes good intentions have bad consequences" secondvariety Mar 2013 #73

Disgusting. n/t bitchkitty Mar 2013 #162

That's Good Advice. Try To Keep It In Mind..... Paladin Mar 2013 #163

Message auto-removed monia0 Mar 2013 #74

Man shot in head over double-parked car UnrepentantLiberal Mar 2013 #76

Isn't it common for Siblings to scare each other sometimes ? JI7 Mar 2013 #77

aw HECK YES Skittles Mar 2013 #85

I get up in the middle of the night HockeyMom Mar 2013 #88

The solution is obviously MOAR GUNZ!! kestrel91316 Mar 2013 #89

I am still shaking my head at this one... Not Me Mar 2013 #90

What was needed here was a good guy with a gun Doctor_J Mar 2013 #92

Ain't that Second Amendment grand! markpkessinger Mar 2013 #99

Negligent homicide. sir pball Mar 2013 #100

You must be one cool calm and collected son of a gun. Got it all figured out, huh? Ed Suspicious Mar 2013 #137

It's a kata, nothing more. sir pball Mar 2013 #144

Rambo was a movie olddots Mar 2013 #156

Yep sir pball Mar 2013 #157

Seems like this kind of thing happens at least ten times more frequently Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #124

I practice the ultimate gun safety tip. 2ndAmForComputers Mar 2013 #127

I'm with you. nt Ed Suspicious Mar 2013 #138

I wonder whether he had heard about the girl who tblue37 Mar 2013 #133

For every intruder shot in the home 22 residents of the home are shot. baldguy Mar 2013 #134

Guns guns guns, it isn't like this in most modern states, it doesn't have to be this way here Exultant Democracy Mar 2013 #135

Gun Nuts on the Loose rks306 Mar 2013 #141

The gun nut parents should be thrown in jail. Cali_Democrat Mar 2013 #148

a pet house dog, house exit plans and how to call 911 first can change the dynamics of a kid alone. Sunlei Mar 2013 #149

More education is needed Franker65 Mar 2013 #150

This message was self-deleted by its author Moostache Mar 2013 #151

One child is physically dead... ReRe Mar 2013 #152

To loosing a little brother will haunt you forever, but killing him yourself... Exultant Democracy Mar 2013 #161

I have a friend who lost his brother... ReRe Mar 2013 #184

Kick! Heidi Mar 2013 #153

Revoke his "well-regulated militia" ID card! n/t tabasco Mar 2013 #158

kick samsingh Mar 2013 #167

gun lovers don't care. samsingh Mar 2013 #166

I still believe this was a tragic accident, but Blue_Tires Mar 2013 #171

Did the 12yo have a concealed carry permit? Politicub Mar 2013 #172

Why does it have to be... RoccoRyg Mar 2013 #174

So unbelievably sad, senseless and preventable...but for gun manufacturer lobbying. nt SunSeeker Mar 2013 #177

I think one of our well-meaning gun-owning DUers should send this young man a Greeting Card LanternWaste Mar 2013 #183