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Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
34. Good gesture! Tells me he may know what the problem is...
Fri Mar 29, 2013, 06:04 AM
Mar 2013

...and that it is very, very old, indeed, and deeply rooted, way back in the 5th century--the original sin of the Church-as-institution.

It was a specific crime that led to all the others and that sent the Church down the wrong road into woman-hatred from which it has never recovered.

In the 5th century, a woman named Hypatia, a mathematician and philosopher, who was the beloved teacher of bishops and other clergy, was skinned alive on the streets of Alexandria by a mob of monks under the direction of a very evil man, Bishop Cyril, who went on to cause a riot and sword fights at a Church synod over the weird subject of the virginity of Jesus' mother. The man was sick, but became a "Father of the Church"--the first to call himself a "patriarch"--and was later canonized as a "saint," by which the Church means that he is in Heaven with God.

What had Hypatia done? She was a brilliant, powerful and highly respected figure. She was a Pagan but that does not explain the horror of her death at the hands of allegedly 'christian' monks. Alexandria was famous for its learning and its tolerance of all religions, philosophies and cultures. It was a haven for the Jews, especially the Alexandria Library, when she headed at that time. She was friends with Orestes, the Roman governor of Alexander. Like the rightwing of today in the U.S, Cyril was trying to undermine the civil government and subject it to Church rule. He sent his mobs against the Jews, confiscated their property and drove them out of Alexandria. Orestes opposed him, and they clashed several times. But neither does this explain the particular horror of Hypatia's murder.

Skinning alive in those days was intended to prevent the soul from going to Heaven. It was worse than death. It was eternal damnation.

Why did Hypatia merit eternal damnation, in this truly terrible form of murder? (--not to mention how Cyril ended up presumed into Heaven by Church "sainthood"; he is called Saint Cyril to this day.)

None of her works survived the crumbling of the Roman Empire. Probably they were burned. (Cyril's monks also attacked the Library.) An index indicates that she wrote several mathematical works. The only thing that remains are the letters of Bishop Sinesius of Ptolemais TO Hypatia. Sinesius had been her pupil and worshiped her. How is it that a Christian bishop considered Pagan Hypatia to be his greatest teacher? Interesting question.

There are hints in his letters to her (and also in certain other events that occurred around that time) that what she may have been embarked upon was peace between, and possibly even a synthesis of, Pagan and Christian teachings--the wedding of Pagan learning (which, in Hypatia's case, was embedded in highly ethical and high-minded neoplatonism) and Jesus' message of love for all, across tribal, religious and class lines.

Another feature of Paganism is worship of the Goddess--a particular target of "Fathers of the Church" like Cyril who took control of Church doctrine, or rather, established that there would be Church doctrine--rigid doctrine from which no one was permitted to deviate. This notion gained ascendance with the cementing of the Church with the power of the State, around the same time. One doctrine (all others anathematized), one Church, enforced by the brutal powers of king and emperor, with particular emphasis on casting out any group, leader or set of ideas that included the Goddess (such as the Christian neoplatonists of the time--the Gnostics) or anything remotely connected to the Goddess (such as the nature worship of the Pelagian Christians) or anything human (such as Jesus being born of a normal mother).

What seems to have seized this sick man Cyril's mind was loathing of women. He is the main force of that era for infecting the Church with this original sin. Jesus didn't hate or loathe women. In fact, in the Gnostic gospels he basically designates Mary Magdalen as head of the apostles. He says she is the only one of them who really understands his teaching. Cyril and his ilk burned those gospels, and somebody during that era grabbed a whole bunch of them, in willy-nilly fashion, as if in a hurry, and buried them in a cave in sealed jars in a desert near Alexandria (where they remained, undiscovered, until the 20th century). So there was obviously an underground movement, at the time--the same period as Hypatia's death--to preserve that which the Cyrils of the newly doctrine-ridden Church were trying to extinguish.

There is an underground Church that runs all through Church history--driven underground by people like Cyril--in which there is no such conflict with half the human race and no such loathing of women and rejection of the Goddess. This is the real Church--the Church of the People, not of the Prelates; the Church of the washing of feet, not the swishing of red robes and the crowning of kings. The washing of feet is a womanly act, a motherly act, a loving act. In doing it, Jesus made himself like a woman and made women (who were often the servants performing tasks like this) equal.

The male hierarchy, with its 1,500 years of misogyny dating back to "Saint' Cyril, turned that act into yet another exclusive male ritual. Pope Francis seems to have sensed its true origin and meaning. I doubt that this will result in reversal of the misogyny of Church doctrine or policy any time soon but it might start the process of bringing the underground Church--the real Church--aboveground. I think that Hypatia was an early activist in that underground Church, earnestly trying to direct bishops and monks onto a higher path of learning and tolerance, and she paid for it by an intolerant, woman-hating dogmatist trying to destroy her very soul, with the particular torture that he subjected her to.

To cleanse such a profound sin will take time. We obviously have quite a lot of sick male descendants of Cyril, quite abominably in positions of religious and moral authority. There is no easy cure for this. But I have to say that symbolism is a good way to begin. Symbols and symbolic acts can be very powerful in bringing about the deep, psychic change that is needed to overcome such a history of error, sin and crime. These men--bishops, cardinals, many priests--are deeply attached to the notion of their superiority--their primacy before God, their self-worship. They are also very, VERY attached to symbols, and need the help of symbols to overcome it. Maybe Pope Francis was intentional in this, or maybe only intuitively or dimly aware of it. Hard to say. But he seems to have good instincts.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Yes, he was supposed to have a dignified ceremony Warpy Mar 2013 #1
good for him, i hope he sticks to serving the poor rather than wanting to take away JI7 Mar 2013 #2
agreed La Lioness Priyanka Mar 2013 #87
It's a powerfull symbolic gesture. bluedigger Mar 2013 #3
I am Catholic and very 840high Mar 2013 #4
I am a lapsed Catholic. I like this Pope. Katashi_itto Mar 2013 #5
I'm an ELCA Lutheran. I like this Pope. LiberalLoner Mar 2013 #77
I am Methodist goclark Mar 2013 #127
I'm an agnostic PolitFreak Mar 2013 #137
I'm a communist Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #142
I'm an Atheist and I like this Pope. Odin2005 Apr 2013 #149
Me too. SleeplessinSoCal Mar 2013 #6
I'm an atheist and I'm so far pleased with him. caseymoz Mar 2013 #17
Ditto! Great post. JusticeForAll Mar 2013 #25
I guess I will be the one who says... SkyDaddy7 Mar 2013 #39
He's only been Pope for a few weeks. Pab Sungenis Mar 2013 #42
well said Tumbulu Mar 2013 #83
He's only been in two weeks. caseymoz Mar 2013 #54
Precisely Sherman A1 Mar 2013 #76
I agree. crim son Mar 2013 #95
I am ex-catholic as well hollysmom Mar 2013 #128
I'm an ex-Catholic Liberalynn Mar 2013 #139
The Pope has been in office for only two weeks. Beacool Mar 2013 #56
He hasn't even unpacked his suitcases yet. No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #61
He never has to unpack a suitcase. merrily Mar 2013 #111
Also he needs to build a T.A.R.D.I.S. Shivering Jemmy Apr 2013 #152
Recovering Catholic here as well Android3.14 Mar 2013 #35
Same here, and I do, too. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #121
There he is, washing the feet of a female prisoner in blue jeans, saying he's at their service. freshwest Mar 2013 #33
It reminds me of Princess Diana going to visit AIDS patients in the 80s undeterred Mar 2013 #96
One person can, with acceptance and approval, encourage those who have suffered greatly. freshwest Mar 2013 #98
Absolutely! undeterred Mar 2013 #106
This Pope is more liberal fitman Mar 2013 #52
I think this reflects his upbringing and life No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #62
Wasn't he brought up by Europeans though? His folks were Italians. merrily Mar 2013 #112
I'm sure when you reflect on the children of immigrants No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #114
I AM the child of immigrants. It is very different from being raised by parents born in the U.S. and merrily Mar 2013 #115
I understand you meant nothing negative No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #117
No, I do realize now why I posted it and it was not a throwaway comment at all. merrily Mar 2013 #119
I am an atheist and I like this pope. Mortos Apr 2013 #148
He would be MTV interesting if he smoked a joint snooper2 Apr 2013 #154
He has only one lung - No Vested Interest Apr 2013 #162
What a bunch of theatre AlbertCat Mar 2013 #7
I did not know that! I am going to google. merrily Mar 2013 #120
He's been doing it for years. Beacool Mar 2013 #8
This is good to know The Second Stone Mar 2013 #16
Now that I think about it, the crucifixtion The Second Stone Mar 2013 #59
That's very heartening news. Thanks for posting this. freshwest Mar 2013 #101
No problem............... Beacool Mar 2013 #109
This is meaningful... CoffeeCat Mar 2013 #9
They're going to assassinate this guy. Those religious wingnuts don't play this game. loudsue Mar 2013 #10
I fear for his safety too. Beacool Mar 2013 #12
JP #1 was assassinated precisely because he *was* going after the Vatican Bank, yes? villager Mar 2013 #13
He also wasn't tough on commies Ter Mar 2013 #55
He's a Jesuit, and the Jesuits are tough starroute Mar 2013 #24
There are quite a few Jesuit martyrs No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #27
Most of those were killed doing missionary work starroute Mar 2013 #41
These days the Roman Catholic Church is attempting to overcome negative preconceptions.... Spitfire of ATJ Mar 2013 #92
I wonder if this is why he decided on different living quarters, not as isolated as the big place. freshwest Mar 2013 #102
He has chosen to live okasha Mar 2013 #144
Thanks for the name of the place. Is there a shorter name for the official residence? freshwest Mar 2013 #145
They'll let this slide. When he starts fucking with their money, THAT's when hughee99 Mar 2013 #57
Have you read "In God's Name" by Yallop? JDPriestly Mar 2013 #69
I think that at the very least, John Paul was shamefully neglected starroute Mar 2013 #108
OMG, he washed feet attached to VAGINAS? OK, I'm sorta impressed. n/t TygrBright Mar 2013 #11
I think they were attached to ankles, but the feet belonged to women! nt MADem Mar 2013 #32
Are you sure? davidthegnome Mar 2013 #37
I'm no doctor, but I do remember a song about bones that laid out the pattern pretty clearly! nt MADem Mar 2013 #43
I, too, am glad to see a Pope... ReRe Mar 2013 #14
Now if would do something meaningful, Zoeisright Mar 2013 #15
damn your right backwoodsbob Mar 2013 #30
No, this church isn't misogynistic. caseymoz Mar 2013 #18
LOL! Politicalboi Mar 2013 #19
Don't feel bad. ForgoTheConsequence Mar 2013 #21
I appreciate the gesture. Arctic Dave Mar 2013 #20
That is seriously touching my heart. Hekate Mar 2013 #22
Foot fetishist. nt OnyxCollie Mar 2013 #23
Rec. n/t AnotherMcIntosh Mar 2013 #47
Time to wash some gay feet. dencol Mar 2013 #26
I'm sure he has caraher Mar 2013 #63
I assume the other poster meant he needs to do penance and offer humble apology for his years of Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #86
That would be a good start caraher Mar 2013 #88
That would be nice. Jamastiene Mar 2013 #130
style over substance; still not slightly impressed with the junta's cleric Alamuti Lotus Mar 2013 #28
Whatever. Embrace thy cynicism, may it warm you at night. Katashi_itto Mar 2013 #81
For what reason do you have hope in such figures? Alamuti Lotus Mar 2013 #94
It freaks me out when I see religious leaders acting like the figures from their religion. Poll_Blind Mar 2013 #29
Isn't that what 'the vow of poverty' means? freshwest Mar 2013 #103
If the pope is going to wash your feet... jberryhill Mar 2013 #31
Personally, if I knew the Pope was going to wash my feet, Beacool Mar 2013 #60
These are young prisoners so I think their hygiene and pedi opportunities are limited. n/t pnwmom Mar 2013 #71
The pedi would be out of the question. Beacool Mar 2013 #73
Maybe not. I remember reading that the other prisoners pnwmom Mar 2013 #74
Ewwwwww.............. Beacool Mar 2013 #97
Good gesture! Tells me he may know what the problem is... Peace Patriot Mar 2013 #34
Thank you for that wonderful summary of the birth of misogyny in the Catholic Church. Pab Sungenis Mar 2013 #46
Thank you for this. So interesting! nt. polly7 Mar 2013 #48
Fascinating post! Turborama Mar 2013 #51
Peace Patriot, that is a wonderful post. merrily Mar 2013 #122
I so appreciate the thought and effort that went into this post Tom Rinaldo Mar 2013 #136
Yes, please post this as an OP in Interfaith okasha Mar 2013 #146
She died in a dispute between the Bishop of Alexandria AND the Governor of Alexandria happyslug Apr 2013 #147
maybe he`ll bring the church into the modern world.... madrchsod Mar 2013 #36
I'm starting to like this guy... davidthegnome Mar 2013 #38
Let that muhfugga start giving away the church treasures tabasco Mar 2013 #40
I like that he's wasting no time in establishing his new Church policies and agenda lunatica Mar 2013 #44
Please let this herald significant reform. n/t Orsino Mar 2013 #45
He seems so kind and compassionate, and much more involved with actual polly7 Mar 2013 #49
This is good. He's living up to Jesus' instruction: "He who would be first, Aristus Mar 2013 #50
BFD.... sell off the churches land and loot and give it to the poor then I'll be impressed. bowens43 Mar 2013 #53
To be fair, all Christan churches, not just the Catholic ones. WHEN CRABS ROAR Mar 2013 #124
And the pedophile priests? KansDem Mar 2013 #58
Kicking Up Dust To Evade the Real Issue BlueManFan Mar 2013 #64
Washing women feet Pope disregards his own law in this matter domchrist Mar 2013 #65
My Mom ArtiChoke Mar 2013 #70
He obviously does have a choice and he exercised it. pnwmom Mar 2013 #72
Do you mean this? Trying to interpret what you wrote... uppityperson Mar 2013 #93
"....we live in antinomian times." AikidoSoul Mar 2013 #129
Thanks, Frankie, but... B Stieg Mar 2013 #66
Good for him. Living a life of poverty and Ilsa Mar 2013 #67
From Pedophile to Pediphile! Anything to cover up their scandals. Walk away Mar 2013 #68
good for him .............. Angry Dragon Mar 2013 #75
We may have a real Pope here! colorado_ufo Mar 2013 #78
So many preeners and poseurs in power around the world BeyondGeography Mar 2013 #79
Athiest here. Wow. n/t Bertha Venation Mar 2013 #80
Nothing but a photo op broadcaster75201 Mar 2013 #82
No, it's not. Beacool Mar 2013 #110
Thank you for articulating this. No Vested Interest Mar 2013 #116
Thank you. Beacool Apr 2013 #159
I agree Quixote1818 Mar 2013 #132
I have liked what I have seen so far. Beacool Apr 2013 #160
Yeah. Just like that Obama guy. onehandle Mar 2013 #141
As admirable as that gesture would be Shivering Jemmy Apr 2013 #153
He says gay people are an attack on God, so those of you lauding him for this own that. Bluenorthwest Mar 2013 #84
No, lauding the Pope for washing people's feet does not confer ownership of his homophobic stance DisgustipatedinCA Mar 2013 #89
No he does not say "gay people are an attack on God." ucrdem Mar 2013 #105
It's Twenty Freaking Thirteen. Pardon me if I don't give a medal ... gauguin57 Mar 2013 #85
Any man that tells me what I have to do with my hair... Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2013 #133
What the Pope does IS CHURCH LAW alcibiades_mystery Mar 2013 #90
Francis' gesture sparked a debate among some conservatives and liturgical purists VA_Jill Mar 2013 #91
I see he has a foot fetish. Just kidding! ZombieHorde Mar 2013 #99
Seems like he might have been the best possible outcome from that conclave MannyGoldstein Mar 2013 #100
Wow! Only 100 years behind the rest of the civilized world now! grahamhgreen Mar 2013 #104
that's being perhaps a bit generous.. ;) Phillip McCleod Mar 2013 #143
Good start. Nt XanaDUer Mar 2013 #107
Doing this is much better than excluding women. merrily Mar 2013 #113
Everything this guy does makes me like him more (nt) Nye Bevan Mar 2013 #118
There's a church law that says you can't wash a woman's feet? tabasco Mar 2013 #123
Seven women had their feet washed at our Catholic Church. WHEN CRABS ROAR Mar 2013 #125
creepy Skittles Mar 2013 #126
Did you see this article? Quixote1818 Mar 2013 #134
a lot of poverty is CAUSED by the Catholic Church Skittles Mar 2013 #135
This is important because he is a role model and the more liberal the better Quixote1818 Mar 2013 #131
At least having a foot fetish is better than being a pedophile. AAO Mar 2013 #138
If he keeps this up, he will do ok. McCamy Taylor Mar 2013 #140
I am really starting to like this guy! Odin2005 Apr 2013 #150
Let me know when he sells off some of the Churches assetts moobu2 Apr 2013 #151
The good news is, you're getting your wish. ucrdem Apr 2013 #155
Yeah. Just like that Obama guy. onehandle Apr 2013 #157
They have sold plenty of assets to pay the victims. Beacool Apr 2013 #161
Being at one's service is actually being at one's service. To me this is a stunt. Lint Head Apr 2013 #156
Law, tradition, rules, rituals marshall Apr 2013 #158
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