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ProgressiveProfessor

(22,144 posts)

79. Because they know more about it than those who advocate cans of beans for self defense?

Sat Mar 30, 2013, 12:06 PM

Mar 2013

Step back and look at this rationally.

The state sets up training standards required for gun ownership via the legislature. Within those rules is a means to get the training certified.

The NRA was originally a training organization. That has not gone away. They certify instructors, write curriculum, and provide expendable for classes. Its pretty good stuff, well polished over the years. No other organization has the history or the resources to compete. You are welcome to start one.

Bear in mind that the NRA does not give the classes. An in state facility (range, gun club, etc) offers it and uses NRA material and some supplemental material tailored to the locality to meet the training requirement. Instruction is normally given by an NRA certified instructor.

I am in CA which takes a different, and IMO, a less effective approach than other states. I do not issue NRA training certificates.

In summary, the NRA is not a gatekeeper, they are a training materiel and instructor certification provider. The field is open for others, but no one seems interested in stepping up. CA, which went a different direction, has much less effective training requirements.

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NRA: No �Member Relationship� With Adam Or Nancy Lanza [View all] DonViejo Mar 2013 OP

Well that got their attention in a fat ass hurry didn't it. Interesting. MichiganVote Mar 2013 #1

None of that is surprising and seems reasonable ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #2

I believe you are correct. However... Tempest Mar 2013 #9

How so? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #10

Right, I for one 'taught' riflery elleng Mar 2013 #16

Just proves there are lots of non-members who support the NRA and their love of guns (and death). Hoyt Mar 2013 #62

No, it means they took a shooting class, In CT that appears to be required by law. ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #63

It means the NRA bribed the folks who wrote the law. Your support of NRA is noted. Hoyt Mar 2013 #95

Actually the NRA opposes mandatory training ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #99

Somehow, I don't think Wayne LaPierre, et al, care about good training. Hoyt Mar 2013 #101

I think if you really cared you would start your own competitive training program ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #115

That would entail planning and effort. Complaining about the NRA is far easier. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2013 #183

They seem to spend a shitload of money on something you claim they don't care about jmowreader Mar 2013 #160

Yeah, so they can claim they do "good." They just want to train new folks to buy more guns. Hoyt Mar 2013 #172

no, they care about selling guns & assault weapons wordpix Mar 2013 #182

The NRA bribed the CT lawmakers? premium Mar 2013 #107

Hoyt doesn't provide links or primary sources. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2013 #184

That's probably why he didn't get back to me. premium Mar 2013 #185

Think of it as a sort of evangelism- You're supposed to take it on faith and not ask questions. friendly_iconoclast Mar 2013 #186

Go checkout campaign contributions to CT lawmakers. Hoyt Mar 2013 #187

You're the one making the accusations, premium Mar 2013 #188

What it shows is how the NRA inflates its membership numbers curlyred Mar 2013 #82

Well it's good to know Adam Lanza was NRA-certified Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #190

It does mean that the mother was following the law ProgressiveProfessor Apr 2013 #191

Good to know Cali_Democrat Apr 2013 #192

Liars. nt onehandle Mar 2013 #3

Probably not... ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #7

How many folks are official members of Republican Party, verses those who support their vile agenda? Hoyt Mar 2013 #64

So you think there is a stealth NRA that is much larger than the 4M members acknowledged ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #66

Looks like the NRA is the gatekeeper for some states' pistol ownership. Paladin Mar 2013 #74

Not really, its actually it a state imposed training requirement ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #75

Most other activities that have a reasonable chance of a fatality require training. grantcart Mar 2013 #122

And I support the required training while the NRA does not ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #124

Universal state requirements for training would probably be the most effective grantcart Mar 2013 #146

and imagine if the UAW sponsored driver training DBoon Mar 2013 #163

The local range here wont let any one shoot without an NRA cert davepc Mar 2013 #4

Training certificate or membership? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #8

What is an NRA certificate? Elvin Ives Mar 2013 #14

A piece of paper saying you sucesfully completed a training course. davepc Mar 2013 #17

It's the paper you sign with the devil right before they steal your soul. Remmah2 Mar 2013 #26

There would be one way to find out davidpdx Mar 2013 #19

I wonder how long it took NRA to purge their records of the Lanza name. Thinkingabout Mar 2013 #5

There is a way for the police to determine that ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #83

A NRA Member doesn't have to receive these magazines to be a member. nt rdharma Mar 2013 #178

Not long in the purging but if these NRA heads believe in Iliyah Mar 2013 #6

NRA certificate required in ohio to get a hockeynut57 Mar 2013 #11

CT requires a NRA training course to buy a handgun. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #23

Past time to change that aspect of laws. Why should government sanction callousness and bigotry? n/t Hoyt Mar 2013 #65

To get or carry a gun, one should have to see photos of people maimed by guns . . . . . . Hoyt Mar 2013 #67

I guess I qualify then atreides1 Mar 2013 #80

If I wanted to buy a gun, premium Mar 2013 #108

Because one supports the industry and carry/accumulate guns in our society. Hoyt Mar 2013 #131

What an epic fail of an answer. premium Mar 2013 #133

Enjoy your guns and the comfort they bring you. Hoyt Mar 2013 #135

Another epic fail. premium Mar 2013 #136

The government requires training, which is according to many, a very good thing ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #68

That needs to change. Why should someone steeped in guns train people on safety? Hoyt Mar 2013 #73

Because they know more about it than those who advocate cans of beans for self defense? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #79

NRA is a right wing organization, and not just with respect to guns. Saw Grover Norquist shilling Hoyt Mar 2013 #89

Then counter it by providing alternative training material ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #96

I'm not into training people to shoot others. Hoyt Mar 2013 #100

I already teach firearms and have no desire to take it nationally ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #116

Jesus.. where is that delete button on my keyboard?????? defacto7 Mar 2013 #12

Pay no attention to that certificate behind the curtain. n/t Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #13

Every gun owner in CT has a NRA certificate hack89 Mar 2013 #24

What is the purpose of the NRA training course? Is it to show you how to use a gun safely? Squinch Mar 2013 #29

It is hard to imagine that any safety training is a waste of time. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #36

Clearly this was. Squinch Mar 2013 #41

Are you suggesting there be no training requirement at all? nt hack89 Mar 2013 #42

I'm stating that this training requirement was obviously not effective in Squinch Mar 2013 #43

The training is to ensure you can handle a gun with no accidents hack89 Mar 2013 #44

So by that logic you must think drivers ed is a complete waste of time, eh? pipoman Mar 2013 #53

If there were a spate of incidents of people driving into schools and running over schoolchildren, Squinch Mar 2013 #59

What is a spate? pipoman Mar 2013 #61

500 child pedestrians killed by cars annually?? Wow! I'm going to get to work Squinch Apr 2013 #189

Yet they have no association with the NRA at all Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #45

If the state says you have to have an NRA certificate hack89 Mar 2013 #46

If the NRA was simply concerned with safe gun handling, it'd be one thing. Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #49

Who else is doing safe gun handling education? pipoman Mar 2013 #51

CT has an AWB and gun registration for assault weapons hack89 Mar 2013 #86

Does "handgun" encompass all guns Progressive dog Mar 2013 #77

You are right - just handguns hack89 Mar 2013 #84

Actually it doesn't "require" an NRA course, but the NRA was successful in getting their name into Hoyt Mar 2013 #90

Did you read the CT law? It is in black and white as a requirement to buy a handgun. nt hack89 Mar 2013 #91

Read a bit closer, it says the equivalent of an NRA course. Hoyt Mar 2013 #93

Who else is doing training? What materials are they using? pipoman Mar 2013 #180

I appreciate your love of the NRA/guns, but they have bribed legislators and created a monopoly. Hoyt Mar 2013 #181

"You are known by the company you keep" was drilled into my head growing up. CTyankee Mar 2013 #15

Well, there's some kind of relationship--unless they hand out certificates like candy MADem Mar 2013 #18

You take a class, you get the cert. davepc Mar 2013 #20

And once you've taken the course, the NRA says you know how to be safe with a gun. Snort. Squinch Mar 2013 #30

NO then they suck your soul. Remmah2 Mar 2013 #33

The NRA's recent statements seem pretty soulless, soooo....... Squinch Mar 2013 #34

What an odd "church-state" relationship. Inappropriate, if you ask me. MADem Mar 2013 #37

+1 Gormy Cuss Mar 2013 #40

And have the state cut the budget for such training courses as a means to restrict pistol licenses? X_Digger Mar 2013 #55

Ahhh....so the answer is to let the gun lobbyists run the show! MADem Mar 2013 #56

Guess who trains and certifies the most police officers? X_Digger Mar 2013 #57

They're not doing a terribly good job, then, are they? MADem Mar 2013 #58

By that same logic, is driver's ed failing because we still have auto crashes? X_Digger Mar 2013 #92

We don't hire Ford's or Toyota's lobbyists to teach driver's ed. nt MADem Mar 2013 #103

And the NRA does not teach state mandated gun safety classes ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #119

Yes, they do. NRA members teach the classes and send the names of the participants to the HQ. nt MADem Mar 2013 #127

And you know this how? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #142

We are TALKING about NRA certified instructors. Try to keep up. MADem Mar 2013 #144

And the NRA doesn't *actually* train most people. X_Digger Mar 2013 #123

Pull the string. MADem Mar 2013 #126

They train the trainers, yes. X_Digger Mar 2013 #132

Yes, they DO send "kickbacks" in the form of new member lists. MADem Mar 2013 #137

You're confusing the LEO program and everything else. X_Digger Mar 2013 #147

I am not "confusing" a doggone thing. Step back, just a bit, and watch the money flow. MADem Mar 2013 #149

Nice rant, but you still haven't supported your assertion that the NRA is training everyone.. X_Digger Mar 2013 #150

Stop trying to change the subject. No one said they were training EVERYONE. MADem Mar 2013 #152

*cough* X_Digger Mar 2013 #153

"Cough--choke"--no one said they teach EVERY class in every locality. MADem Mar 2013 #156

You've repeated it more than once, before you were shown to be wrong. X_Digger Mar 2013 #157

Grasp that straw firmly, now! MADem Mar 2013 #162

I *encourage* folks to read you repeatedly saying things that are incorrect. X_Digger Mar 2013 #165

You're the one who needs to educate yourself, and you've made that abundantly clear in this MADem Mar 2013 #166

My bias is for reality, not hyperbolic hand-wringing. X_Digger Mar 2013 #167

No, your bias is towards the fiction that the NRA is a benevolent organization that cares about you. MADem Mar 2013 #169

You can take your fingers out of my mouth, I've no idea where they've been. X_Digger Mar 2013 #173

I don't know or care where you have your "fingers" but that's no concern of mine. MADem Mar 2013 #175

Well, you were happy to try to stuff words in my mouth. n/t X_Digger Mar 2013 #176

The NRA started as a training and competition organization ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #81

"You just don't see it on MSNBC. " rdharma Mar 2013 #88

I fully agree with that ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #98

The lion's share of the NRA's revenue goes to the political action branch..... rdharma Mar 2013 #104

Dues or political contributions ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #109

"If it's dues, report them to the IRS." rdharma Mar 2013 #148

The one that restricts tax exempt organizations from being involved in political campaigns. Clames Mar 2013 #154

So why aren't NRA membership dues tax deductible? rdharma Mar 2013 #158

I know why the NRA dues aren't tax deductible. Clames Mar 2013 #159

"I also (k)now that membership dues aren't used for political lobbying" rdharma Mar 2013 #161

Because the part of the organization those dues go to... Clames Mar 2013 #164

"does not meet the criteria to be tax exempt" rdharma Mar 2013 #168

Post removed Post removed Mar 2013 #174

You sure are naive about who controls a PAC - the mother organization, NRA in this case. Hoyt Mar 2013 #171

No one is stepping up because states have pretty much given NRA monopoly to spread their propaganda Hoyt Mar 2013 #94

No one is stepping up due to the cost, not because states have capitulated ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #97

States, and pro-gunners, have given monopoly power to NRA. Hoyt Mar 2013 #102

Nonsense Its not a black letter monopoly and many gun owners are not NRA members. Create your own ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #110

Supposedly Lanza & his mom weren't members either. Yet they subscribed to NRA's right wing BS. Hoyt Mar 2013 #130

I honestly don't care if they started as a sewing club. MADem Mar 2013 #105

The training side provides the best stuff out there and no one else is stepping up. ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #113

No one else is stepping up because the NRA pays people to maintain the monopoly. MADem Mar 2013 #129

"No one is stepping up to do it." Perhaps that is the FIRST step towards getting a divorce from MADem Mar 2013 #112

Start with your legislature then and have them drop the requirement. ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #114

No one is suggesting that the requirement be dropped--that is a strawman you keep shopping. MADem Mar 2013 #139

The NRA controls the MA legislature? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #140

Now youre pretending you don't know how their "Political Victory Fund" controls and MADem Mar 2013 #145

If the state "requires by law" that someone take a class, MADem Mar 2013 #111

Generally the states approve the content and the NRA does not know who took the classes ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #117

Oh, horseshit. The state has abdicated their duty. MADem Mar 2013 #125

No �Member Relationship' sounds like lawyer talk tblue Mar 2013 #21

Like anyone thinks the NRA is a functional enough organization to keep records... Evasporque Mar 2013 #22

The NRA has a huge infrastructure devoted to training and records ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #69

What kind of college degree do printing majors get? Remmah2 Mar 2013 #25

I wonder why Nitram Mar 2013 #27

I wonder why the NRA isn't horrified that they issued a certificate of competence to Adam Lanza. Squinch Mar 2013 #31

NRA did not issue it ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #70

A lot of police departments have NRA based training. Remmah2 Mar 2013 #32

Why does the state "deputize" the NRA to do their work for them? MADem Mar 2013 #38

The issue is the state requirement for training, which is an overall good thing ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #72

I feel you have a point there... Bay Boy Mar 2013 #78

"The state" needs to "step up." MADem Mar 2013 #106

They have...they certify curricula taught my local instructors ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #121

I don't think the states should provide the training for free. MADem Mar 2013 #138

You continue to ignore that the NRA does not do the training, does not get paid for the training, & ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #141

You continue to ignore that the NRA does do the training, MADem Mar 2013 #143

It is the same in Mass Marrah_G Mar 2013 #48

Terrorist training camps and manuals right here in America... Comrade_McKenzie Mar 2013 #28

It is state required training ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #87

Whether he was or not... Bay Boy Mar 2013 #35

"Don't believe what the certificate on our letterhead says, believe what we tell you" Myrina Mar 2013 #39

In the state of MA the handgun safety certificate required is an NRA course Marrah_G Mar 2013 #47

What was the "indoctrination" level in the course you took? ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #85

How about privacy? Why should the NRA have ready access to a mailing list by teaching a class? MADem Mar 2013 #118

NRA does not teach the classes and does not have access to attendee rosters ProgressiveProfessor Mar 2013 #120

NRA does teach the classes. They train the instructors, who are card-carrying NRA members. MADem Mar 2013 #134

Funny, you have been lobbying for guns ever since you began posting in gungeon. Hoyt Mar 2013 #177

"The Lanzas swallowed our propaganda but never gave us any money!" struggle4progress Mar 2013 #50

Privatizing the profits, outsourcing the liabilities. n/t Bolo Boffin Mar 2013 #52

! struggle4progress Mar 2013 #54

Of course not. AngryOldDem Mar 2013 #60

Of course not. moondust Mar 2013 #71

The NRA loved having their name on those certificates until they didn't. n/t Little Star Mar 2013 #76

A name on an NRA certificate is a name MADem Mar 2013 #151

Good point. n/t Little Star Mar 2013 #155

Why would it make any difference if either of them were members? hatrack Mar 2013 #128

"wouldn't the NRA be standing proud behind the constitutional rights of this mass murderer?" rdharma Mar 2013 #170

Move along nothing to see here!!!!! Initech Mar 2013 #179