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Yo_Mama

(8,303 posts)
92. Yes, but the long term doesn't matter if the short term doesn't work
Wed Apr 3, 2013, 11:34 PM
Apr 2013

And while we can count on housing appreciation over 20 years, we can't count on it for the next 5 in many markets. And the first 5 to 7 years is where you get beaten or proved. That's all that matters to me.

Heck, let's be honest. The idea that long term housing never goes down was precisely the justification used to argue that irresponsible lending practices weren't irresponsible in the late great housing autodestructonova we created. The theory was that if we never forced the borrowers to pay back any of the principal then we wouldn't have the day of reckoning, and that housing prices would never have to fall. That type of thinking is what drove so many responsible buyers out of their homes. Applying it again is going to produce the same result. What always kills these things is buyer exhaustion, and we're close.

The fact that rents are already dropping where the big block PE purchases have been made makes me wary. Also, I read FHA reports every couple of months. They are getting scary again.

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=ol0113.pdf

Oh, I expected FHA once again to laughably underestimate this year's claims, which have increased 48% YTD compared to 2012 YTD. I expected huge numbers of rollover refis. What I did not expect and FHA did not expect was the massive drop in TOTAL (AUS) approvals. 56.7% for fiscal year 2013? They were projecting over 84%. Last year was up in the 70s.

That means that we have very large quantities of manual underwriting going on, and that the market is adapting. We've also still got a current serious delinquency rate of 9.5%. Because FHA is the backstop for those low DPs, we can't afford to let it go down, but it is in big trouble already. Big trouble. It doesn't need to get in any more trouble.

And then look at the massive number of refis - up 200% so far this year compared to YTD 2013. 200%. And 80% of those suckers streamlines, meaning no appraisals. You think a load of those aren't underwater? And first-time purchasers are up a measly 2.4% YTD. And total purchase apps are down 4.1%. But total purchases are up 0.4%, because now virtually every purchase app is approved.

Anybody who's following along knows that the same old same old is getting underway again. It won't be as large but the whole system is already getting stressed, and there will be fallout.

When you can't even get first time borrowers to plop down a 3.5% dp (WITH new DP assistance programs sprouting again), you have a situation in which the real market is extremely weak and prone to fail.

It isn't going to be different this time. It never bleeping is. FT buyers support the whole freakin' market. When they dry up, the market dries up. The PE bots are going to be fading out before we can really pull in many more FTs.

Well, hoohah, April 1st FHA premiums went up again, which I'm sure is going to make this mix look even more beyootiful. This is a big blivet of a housing market. June 3rd of this year FHA extends the MIP period to 30 years or the life of the loan for LTVs higher than 90%:
http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=13-04ml.pdf

I guess they are hoping to cover those underwater streamlines that way.

There's a lot going on in this market, and a lot of it isn't encouraging. Demand means jack because demand will fluctuate with available terms and then with failures.

The whole reason that TPTB are trying to get credit standards down is because demand is failing. I cry BS.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

It's deja vu all over again. nt OnyxCollie Apr 2013 #1
doh! gristy Apr 2013 #2
Yep, seems the politicians are serving their banker donors once again! n/t alp227 Apr 2013 #10
It's only been a few years, have we learned nothing? MrSlayer Apr 2013 #3
It was not delinquent homeowners that crashed the banks ... MindMover Apr 2013 #7
I know. They were the vehicle the banksters used to loot the place. MrSlayer Apr 2013 #19
Either you are or you aren't madokie Apr 2013 #30
What people are not realizing is that Drale Apr 2013 #4
+1 nt Live and Learn Apr 2013 #28
THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ socialist_n_TN Apr 2013 #42
650 is pretty bad Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #62
Here we go again. MichiganVote Apr 2013 #5
What could possibly go wrong? subterranean Apr 2013 #6
What the hell??? lexw Apr 2013 #8
it worked so well last time putitinD Apr 2013 #9
Correct me if I am wrong... iandhr Apr 2013 #11
I don't think we have in the sense of making sure the bail out money reached main street... midnight Apr 2013 #31
Instead of public housing . . . caseymoz Apr 2013 #12
The problem wasn't lending to poor people geek tragedy Apr 2013 #14
Of course it was PSPS Apr 2013 #21
They're not proposing to bring back liar loans geek tragedy Apr 2013 #32
We already have artificially low teaser rates. Igel Apr 2013 #83
Since the vast majority of loans are fixed-rate geek tragedy Apr 2013 #84
I see builders' signs ... Myrina Apr 2013 #47
As I understand it, the percentage of mortgages that were sub-prime had soared to historic Flatulo Apr 2013 #25
Bigger problem was when 'prime' loans began performing geek tragedy Apr 2013 #36
And other debt Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #66
I'm in absolute agreement about "ability to pay" being the geek tragedy Apr 2013 #67
It's complex Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #69
Short-term there is a risk of loss of equity/down payment geek tragedy Apr 2013 #74
Yes, but the long term doesn't matter if the short term doesn't work Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #92
I would quibble that it wasn't the notion that geek tragedy Apr 2013 #93
Thanks for a great post! I'm sure it took some time Flatulo Apr 2013 #80
I got my first mortgage in 1986. $110k, 12.75% Flatulo Apr 2013 #68
Our lender threw a fit because my wife transferred geek tragedy Apr 2013 #70
Lol - we're a pendulum-y kind of people. nt Flatulo Apr 2013 #72
Please read #88 - an explosion in lending, this Reuters article specific to subprime auto loans n/t progree Apr 2013 #89
Auto and residential mortgages are completely different sectors of the economy. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #90
I know, but the article mentions subprime mortgage securities as another mini-bubble, although just progree Apr 2013 #91
Yep. Hassin Bin Sober Apr 2013 #51
Most people don't understand how complex mortgage lending criteria are. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #53
Also the "CRA did it" crowd magellan Apr 2013 #61
Government should never encourage private 3rd party loans. caseymoz Apr 2013 #71
So, people should be forced to pay cash if they want to own a home? geek tragedy Apr 2013 #75
Did I forget to mention grants? caseymoz Apr 2013 #76
How is the government supposed to raise enough money geek tragedy Apr 2013 #77
Really? We can't? caseymoz Apr 2013 #78
The problem is that private industry is not willing to take the geek tragedy Apr 2013 #79
You have to compare that $100 billion . . . caseymoz Apr 2013 #87
The pendulum has swung too far the other way. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #13
yep daybranch Apr 2013 #15
How did the conversation get here ???? Purplehazed Apr 2013 #22
Um ... Fact free generalisations denem Apr 2013 #23
Nobody is proposing giving loans to people geek tragedy Apr 2013 #33
+1 DCBob Apr 2013 #26
You left out the all the buyers from other countries. nt Live and Learn Apr 2013 #29
Here in NYC, absolutely. nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #34
He should have nationalized a few instead SHRED Apr 2013 #16
Obama nationalized the biggest lenders - Fannie & Freddie denem Apr 2013 #24
Private equity firms are buying up foreclosures by the billions of dollars. Fuddnik Apr 2013 #17
^^ This ^^ Myrina Apr 2013 #45
So people should pay their landlords' mortgages instead? geek tragedy Apr 2013 #56
The Fine Print: What The Street doesn't like is the facility to refinance existing mortgages denem Apr 2013 #18
+1 nt geek tragedy Apr 2013 #50
This is all we have left Mnpaul Apr 2013 #20
If you can't afford it, real estate is the riskiest investment you can make because its leveraged. dkf Apr 2013 #27
You realize FICO scores are irrelevant to the ability geek tragedy Apr 2013 #37
They were approving amounts based on my income. dkf Apr 2013 #38
Indeed. Earth_First Apr 2013 #39
Smart. dkf Apr 2013 #41
Obama isn't talking about encouraging banks to lend to people geek tragedy Apr 2013 #48
I couldn't have afforded to pay back what they were willing to lend to me... dkf Apr 2013 #52
You're conflating credit scores with DTI ratios. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #54
Yeah they thought I could pay off that crazy amount too...and by myself! dkf Apr 2013 #58
The limit for conforming mortgages is 28% of pre-tax income, with geek tragedy Apr 2013 #60
You can tell the lenders that at your next mortgage application...........I'm sure they will listen lunasun Apr 2013 #57
FICO has nothing to do with income. They check both your FICO credit score geek tragedy Apr 2013 #59
A FICO score of about 520 is generally the minimum that will qualify for a mortgage lunasun Apr 2013 #64
FICO is one of many variables. geek tragedy Apr 2013 #65
Please, loan sharks, get more customers! JackRiddler Apr 2013 #35
Stupidity rules. dipsydoodle Apr 2013 #40
Isn't that how 2008 happened in the first place? Myrina Apr 2013 #43
He's not the same as Bush! Doctor_J Apr 2013 #44
No, he's not. Anyone who understands mortgage lending would tell geek tragedy Apr 2013 #55
Dump the Trans Pacific Partnership and at least keep those jobs here. amandabeech Apr 2013 #46
The lenders own the homes untill they are paid off. Why aren't the lenders paying the property tax?? Sunlei Apr 2013 #49
"assuring banks they won't face recriminations" Enrique Apr 2013 #63
Because it worked so well the last time? slackmaster Apr 2013 #73
Weak credit wasn't the problem davidn3600 Apr 2013 #82
O RLY? slackmaster Apr 2013 #86
Gosh. Where are Sid Dithers, Mineral Man, and NYC Skip Occulus Apr 2013 #81
Knives allowed on planes, banks urged to make loans to people with weak credit... forestpath Apr 2013 #85
I thought maybe this was Chicken Little stuff, then I read this -- Subprime auto loans explosion progree Apr 2013 #88
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