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LiberalEsto

(22,845 posts)

111. They didn't come here with hundreds of thousands of other Estonians

Wed Apr 17, 2013, 09:11 PM

Apr 2013

to grab large numbers of middle class jobs from Americans. If they had, there would certainly have been resentment against them by earlier-arriving Americans, and I could understand that.

My parents and grandmother didn't want to come to America, but they had few other choices. If they had been forced back to Soviet-occupied Estonia, they would likely have been sent to Siberia to perish with thousands of other Estonians. They would rather have lived in the UK to at least be in Europe, closer to their homeland.

I brought up my parents' immigration story because you challenged me to. It seems to me as though 98 percent of what I've written is ignored, only to have a few words pounced on.

Feel free to support corporations that screw Americans who pay their taxes and provide the infrastructure in which the corporations operate. Perhaps one day someone from another country will take over your job, or that of a relative, because the employer wants to replace them with cheap labor from overseas. Will your world citizenship pay the bills?

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US to hike H1B visas, merit will count for green cards [View all] alp227 Apr 2013 OP

cue the offshore whores to tell us why this is a win-win for us Skittles Apr 2013 #1

I guess they realize today isn't the day to piss us off DainBramaged Apr 2013 #15

when folk with so-called masters degrees Skittles Apr 2013 #148

Because it doesn't just affect outsourcing giants. Arkana Apr 2013 #16

Thanks, Arkana n/t WilmywoodNCparalegal Apr 2013 #21

H1-B is a program milked by the consulting firms, Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #28

Thanks for proving my point, Sparky! Arkana Apr 2013 #34

You're welcome...nt Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #36

Actually, what I take from this little exchange Occulus Apr 2013 #41

Seeing as how I'm one of those IT workers who gets hit over the head Arkana Apr 2013 #57

Perhaps help our immigration process so they don't have to wait over TEN YEARS to become a citizen? cascadiance Apr 2013 #60

The very nature of the H1-B Visa, keeps people from building lives here. Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #61

This is about increasing the number of visas not about re-issuing visas for people JDPriestly Apr 2013 #73

I thought H1B visas were temporary, 5-year visas LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #113

Exchange professors should not be here on H1-B visas. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #189

wow...you called him Sparky markiv Apr 2013 #212

"worker from India with years of experience " DainBramaged Apr 2013 #239

Cue the hypocritical, xenophobic comments of people who claim to be for human equality. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #48

you have ZERO CLUE Skittles Apr 2013 #80

Zero clue about what? harmonicon Apr 2013 #92

MY MUM WAS A PERMANENT RESIDENT ALIEN (re: GREEN CARD) Skittles Apr 2013 #100

So, what is it that I have zero clue about? harmonicon Apr 2013 #103

you think anyone anti-offshoring is a xenophobe Skittles Apr 2013 #106

This has nothing to do with offshoring. harmonicon Apr 2013 #108

offshoring, inshoring, IT'S ALL PIMPING Skittles Apr 2013 #109

Which type of whore do you like? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #110

Which offshoring corporation do you work for? nt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #114

None. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #128

nothing to do with offshoring? tell that to Infosys markiv Apr 2013 #209

Nice find! OhioChick Apr 2013 #211

notice they DID NOT say that they would have markiv Apr 2013 #213

Don't want to have to pay those Americans a living wage! OhioChick Apr 2013 #214

Would you rather the jobs be done here or offshore? Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #68

HERE - by people who cannot find jobs Skittles Apr 2013 #81

DU's own "AZLady" trained FOUR H-1B's to replace her at a LOWER wage OhioChick Apr 2013 #95

and it probably took four of them to do her job Skittles Apr 2013 #101

Absolutely! n/t OhioChick Apr 2013 #126

I called someone at 3 in the morning Skittles Apr 2013 #147

that arguement has been 100 percent discredited markiv Apr 2013 #203

Well this is conceding we have no intention of giving our kids a decent education. dkf Apr 2013 #2

Yep. djean111 Apr 2013 #3

Great word "Excrescence..nt Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #139

India provides free tuition to its citizens fasttense Apr 2013 #5

I know what you're saying, but considering slavery was legal closeupready Apr 2013 #22

Not only not educating them, we're denying them Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #29

Agreed. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #37

Yep. No way that Americans can compete against there foreign supergeniuses Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #66

There are plenty of people here with the expertise. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #116

You're absolutely right and comp science enrollments are soaring and have been the past few years OhioChick Apr 2013 #124

no, it's conceding that we're displacing our educated kids (and their parents) markiv Apr 2013 #210

Which is worse... dkf Apr 2013 #215

Just when you think it's not possible for this government to be any more brazen. nt Jerry442 Apr 2013 #4

Wow, whore for the corporations and cut-off families JCMach1 Apr 2013 #6

There should be unlimited immigration from everywhere. graham4anything Apr 2013 #7

"Why should someone who is Asian or from India be excluded just because of who they are?" mac56 Apr 2013 #8

Americans are magical? harmonicon Apr 2013 #51

Nope. avaistheone1 Apr 2013 #63

Limits on trade Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #233

My ancestors were poor, escaping religious persecution, seeking to work hard JDPriestly Apr 2013 #77

worthy of its own thread Skittles Apr 2013 #84

Who the FUCK are "our" children? harmonicon Apr 2013 #90

Who is paying you to do PR for corporations? LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #121

Who failed to explain cognitive dissonance to you? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #125

If we should be all "equal" then why don't you argue for OUR right to have an equal cost of living.. cascadiance Apr 2013 #145

I'm largely in agreement with you, but this thread was bout a type of immigration. harmonicon Apr 2013 #146

Well, if you were offered $400k a year for moving across the world for a few years, would you do it? cascadiance Apr 2013 #149

So, give all immigrants green cards instead of temporary visas. harmonicon Apr 2013 #154

I want people who want to move here for a job to be looking to become a citizen here... cascadiance Apr 2013 #155

That's pretty insulting to a lot of people in a lot of different ways. harmonicon Apr 2013 #157

These "rules" have been touted before and haven't been enforced. cascadiance Apr 2013 #159

India is not a great place to live. If it were, we would not have so many Indians JDPriestly Apr 2013 #191

I have no loyalty to our country, but I can work there without a visa. harmonicon Apr 2013 #198

' I have no loyalty to our country' markiv Apr 2013 #217

Yes, it does. harmonicon Apr 2013 #220

well, being anti-country loyalty makes great credentials markiv Apr 2013 #223

According to this study "nationalism" is the one common thread uniting far-right groups. pampango Apr 2013 #226

Try going to another country and just getting a job and living there. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #179

I didn't read past the first sentence of this. Read my profile. harmonicon Apr 2013 #183

Have you noticed that I have lived in other countries? If you read my posts, you know JDPriestly Apr 2013 #192

Once again, we just disagree on an absolutely fundamental level. harmonicon Apr 2013 #193

We pay the taxes that support this nation's infrastructure LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #118

People working in the US on visas are paying US taxes. harmonicon Apr 2013 #122

You could have fooled me. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #127

I care very deeply about Americans. harmonicon Apr 2013 #130

You sound like one of those "I love humanity -- LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #133

Visa workers are paying US taxes however OhioChick Apr 2013 #131

Are they? Prove it. nt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #134

Umm... I don't have immediate access to every worker's tax forms. harmonicon Apr 2013 #135

No. No. There needs to be an even playing field for your utopia to work. djean111 Apr 2013 #9

Good idea. Tuition in the US should be free. harmonicon Apr 2013 #52

call back with your pro-h-1b arguements when tuition IS free markiv Apr 2013 #218

Whose kids? I don't have any kids. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #221

so you dont believe in country loyalty, you dont care about USA kids markiv Apr 2013 #224

Yep, I love puppies. harmonicon Apr 2013 #227

OK, I'll see your idea and raise you. Jerry442 Apr 2013 #11

Thank you. Finally, someone who doesn't curl up into a xenophobic ball Arkana Apr 2013 #19

It's not about xenophobia Bradical79 Apr 2013 #23

I don't deny that it's a problem for US citizens. Arkana Apr 2013 #26

The reality is: the Chamber of Commerce has bought and paid for immigration policy. alp227 Apr 2013 #45

When their families live with a cost of living ONE TENTH of what we as American families live at... cascadiance Apr 2013 #46

^ THIS ^ mac56 Apr 2013 #69

Yes, yes, yes! Immigration:OK. H1B indentured servitude: not OK. nt Jerry442 Apr 2013 #83

Yes. That is why I support the policy behind the Dream Act. People who want to stay JDPriestly Apr 2013 #195

Absolutely sikofit3 Apr 2013 #72

But calling people xenophobic because they support jobs for people who are citizens or residents davidpdx Apr 2013 #235

Your post might be more believable if it was a tad more reality-based. jeff47 Apr 2013 #164

And think how well they would do if they took their experience and know-how and JDPriestly Apr 2013 #194

+100 nt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #123

MY MUM WAS NOT AMERICAN Skittles Apr 2013 #82

Magical thinking. Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #30

Wake up... ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #32

Knowing what American students go through to get into medical school, JDPriestly Apr 2013 #197

Meanwhile, American kids with college degrees work at McDonalds. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #39

Why should Americans come first? harmonicon Apr 2013 #55

"Apart from an accident of birth, there's nothing that makes me an American." mac56 Apr 2013 #70

that's a live one Skittles Apr 2013 #85

Is "they" me? harmonicon Apr 2013 #87

It isn't a matter of "coming first." It's a matter of the responsibility and duty of the JDPriestly Apr 2013 #71

You can't just go making up your own facts. harmonicon Apr 2013 #88

You might try reality some time. It's refreshing. jeff47 Apr 2013 #165

If people want the jobs so bad, work them for 40k a year. harmonicon Apr 2013 #168

Because the companies won't hire the US citizen at $40k/year jeff47 Apr 2013 #171

Two things: harmonicon Apr 2013 #175

Again, the H-1B is utterly unnecessary jeff47 Apr 2013 #177

Immigrant/citizen, it's all the same to me. harmonicon Apr 2013 #180

The H-1B blocks that. jeff47 Apr 2013 #185

I don't hate the visa, because I don't hate the person who would use it to make their life better. harmonicon Apr 2013 #190

Immigrant/citizen, it's all the same to me. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #199

Yes, it's all the same to me. harmonicon Apr 2013 #200

Don't let the door hit you on the butt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #132

it shows nt markiv Apr 2013 #219

Thank you. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #222

I cannot fucking believe there's something I'm in 100% agreement with you about!! (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #49

I'm not opposed to immigration, but it should be first-come-first-serve. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #75

Would those Asian nations let thousands upon thousands of Americans take they good jobs? LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #120

We haven't even recovered the jobs lost in 2007 FreakinDJ Apr 2013 #10

Sound like they are putting the finishing touches on the TPP.... midnight Apr 2013 #12

Fuck DainBramaged Apr 2013 #13

Disgusting ramapo Apr 2013 #14

And why are citizens better than other people? harmonicon Apr 2013 #50

Face-Palm ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #76

I'll let you work out most of the logical contradictions you made by yourself. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #89

And I'll leave you to enjoy your Fairies, Mermaids and Gnomes. n/t ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #94

Radio Gnome Invisible, all the way. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #99

Seriously? ramapo Apr 2013 #115

Your answer to my question seems to be "because... ummm... just because." harmonicon Apr 2013 #119

Yes, just because ramapo Apr 2013 #141

I agree that representatives should work for their constituents. harmonicon Apr 2013 #144

This has nothing to do with inherent rights ramapo Apr 2013 #152

I see it as only being about inherent rights. harmonicon Apr 2013 #153

Being born outside the U.S. affords you SPECIAL PRIVILEGES of being able to pay less... cascadiance Apr 2013 #156

So we should all be serfs, forever tied to the land of our birth? harmonicon Apr 2013 #158

or be serfs forever being forced to travel the world to survive? cascadiance Apr 2013 #160

I have one very plain, simple, and clear agenda. harmonicon Apr 2013 #161

But those who get screwed by a high cost of living with this "equality", SCREW THEM, right? n/t cascadiance Apr 2013 #162

Hate and fear should not be obstacles to doing the right thing. harmonicon Apr 2013 #163

The hate and fear are your interpretation jeff47 Apr 2013 #167

If the going rate falls by 50%, that's the new going rate. harmonicon Apr 2013 #170

What you don't get is that's not the going rate. jeff47 Apr 2013 #172

Wait... which is it? harmonicon Apr 2013 #176

Oh for fuck sake, you're not even bothering to read, are you? jeff47 Apr 2013 #181

By getting that H1-B visa and job offer in the US, that worker now has one more job open to them. harmonicon Apr 2013 #184

You were just arguing it was about freedom. Now you're arguing slavery is freedom. jeff47 Apr 2013 #186

Oh, yes, it's slavery. harmonicon Apr 2013 #187

Yes. If you cannot sell your labor freely in a market in competition with other employees, JDPriestly Apr 2013 #205

Well then, we're all slaves, dude. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #206

Yes. The H1-B visas work to skew the job market. That is precisely what they do. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #202

Sounds like you are advocating either anarchy or an international dictatorship. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #201

I'm an anarchist. I'm happy to say so. harmonicon Apr 2013 #204

It may be arbitrary, but it allows us to live in an organized society. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #231

I don't know why I bother but.... ramapo Apr 2013 #246

Utopia may not exist in our lifetime, but sensible immigration policy might. harmonicon Apr 2013 #248

So you're for outsourcing too right? Union Scribe Apr 2013 #140

I think "outsourcing" is basically a meaningless term at this point. harmonicon Apr 2013 #142

Because too many Americans have jobs, I gather. valerief Apr 2013 #17

Another day, another kick in the teeth. forestpath Apr 2013 #18

Goddamnit LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #20

And your family came to the US from where? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #58

FYI it took my parents a HELL of a lot to get immigration papers to the US LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #64

Read your last sentence again yourself. harmonicon Apr 2013 #86

My brother-in-law would be homeless now LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #93

That's right, when your parents came to the US there was 0% unemployment. harmonicon Apr 2013 #97

They didn't come here with hundreds of thousands of other Estonians LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #111

Foreigners working in the US still pay taxes, you know. harmonicon Apr 2013 #117

I would bet that his/her parents came here at a time in which the US was expanding JDPriestly Apr 2013 #207

Really? During Jim Crow... harmonicon Apr 2013 #208

In the North (no real Jim Crow) and after WWII.` JDPriestly Apr 2013 #230

Oh, yeah, there was no racial discrimination in the north at all. No sir. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #232

Not in the area in which I lived after WWII. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #245

Dude, I watched racial discrimination in hiring happen in 2006. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #247

You probably did. But to my mind and in my understanding, Jim Crow JDPriestly Apr 2013 #249

"... other countries protect the jobs of their citizens, unlike the U.S." - not true in Europe. pampango Apr 2013 #98

I am not any kind of expert political debater LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #112

Nope. jeff47 Apr 2013 #166

Double 'nope'. pampango Apr 2013 #173

So little math quiz jeff47 Apr 2013 #174

Another little math quiz. pampango Apr 2013 #188

"We're all citizens of the world, and we all have equal rights, mac56 Apr 2013 #96

No one should support this Bradical79 Apr 2013 #24

If we're going to level the playing field Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #31

So how about you get people to be as vocal about that idea as they are in their fear? harmonicon Apr 2013 #59

We have made a promise and are required by law to give equal protection of the law JDPriestly Apr 2013 #79

You mean and employer shouldn't hire the person they want for the job? harmonicon Apr 2013 #91

my guess is you profit from pimping off jobs to the lowest bidders Skittles Apr 2013 #102

You're wrong on both accounts. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #104

yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight Skittles Apr 2013 #105

You're calling me a liar? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #107

Yeah, see, this is what Freepers do. Arkana Apr 2013 #150

I think that people who are citizens, people who were born here or are naturalized JDPriestly Apr 2013 #178

Human beings don't have rights because of what's written on paper. harmonicon Apr 2013 #182

Nearly right ... Nihil Apr 2013 #237

Isn't it just a difference of outlook? harmonicon Apr 2013 #238

Fair point. (n/t) Nihil Apr 2013 #242

In the 'real world' your 'rights' do depend "basically on luck & good fortune - the luck and good pampango Apr 2013 #240

And I agree with yours. Nihil Apr 2013 #243

Wage depression can always get through this Congress... Orsino Apr 2013 #25

Of course he will sign it... ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #43

11 million undocumented workers depresses wages far more than 200K H1Bs. hugo_from_TN Apr 2013 #47

BOTH of these forms of slave labor are wrong... cascadiance Apr 2013 #53

Ah. One of those. n/t Orsino Apr 2013 #62

Utterly disgusting OhioChick Apr 2013 #27

Notice they shifted the debate from the 11 million to the H1-B Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #33

Yup, I saw that was snuck in. avaistheone1 Apr 2013 #65

No. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #35

Cut education here so we can hire cheaper from over there. L0oniX Apr 2013 #38

Not my field, but this article from a google search appears to contradict the OP. proverbialwisdom Apr 2013 #40

Hey Senate, how about tuition free higher education and 0 Visas magic59 Apr 2013 #42

Democrats supporting this absolute POS bill WILL get me to leave the Democratic Party!!! cascadiance Apr 2013 #44

Please read the details WilmywoodNCparalegal Apr 2013 #54

"Body shops" have worked around these kind of restrictions for decades... cascadiance Apr 2013 #56

They thumb their noses at the existing restrictions. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #129

How 'bout you list those details? jeff47 Apr 2013 #169

Good. Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #67

Headline not good, because it is only a Senate bill treestar Apr 2013 #74

Thats fuct up. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #78

Thank heavens for the Ignore feature. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #136

+1000 n/t OhioChick Apr 2013 #137

Great idea. I agree. harmonicon Apr 2013 #138

It's not just about wages. Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #234

The TV show "Outsourced" had your idea about foreign countries. alp227 Apr 2013 #229

Low wage workers also face serious job competition from immigrants. limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #143

So let me see if I got this right: A country that's at 15% real unemployment . . . HughBeaumont Apr 2013 #151

Excellent post, HughBeaumont! OhioChick Apr 2013 #216

i think everyone was too damned depressed after reading it markiv Apr 2013 #225

excellent post. I would add one thing...exactly WHAT are laid off workers supposed to train for? antigop Apr 2013 #236

You speak for me Brother .... Trajan Apr 2013 #250

Good. I don't hate teh furriners, Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #196

I hate corporation-favoring zero-sum business practices, which job offshoring very much is. HughBeaumont Apr 2013 #244

Title is misleading. tarheelsunc Apr 2013 #228

Damn. Owl Apr 2013 #241