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jeff47

(26,549 posts)

165. You might try reality some time. It's refreshing.

Thu Apr 18, 2013, 02:40 PM

Apr 2013

Here's how the scam works:

1. The company says "We need a software engineer II. Requirements are (list of requirements for a software engineer V)"
2. Not surprisingly, the company is not able to find a US citizen who's an SE2 with the experience of an SE5. Such people are, shockingly enough, SE5s.
3. Company says "see! We need H-1Bs" and hires one. She has the experience of an SE5. She's hired as an SE2.
4. H-1B visa holder is assigned the duties of an SE5 at SE2 pay. Which means they're getting ~$40k/year for a job that should pay ~$90k/year.

H-1B visa holders are given preference because they will work for less. The "rules" that are supposed to provide preferences for US citizens over H-1B visa holders are trivial to avoid.

If we actually need people with STEM degrees, let them immigrate. Hand out green cards. Don't create a special visa designed to hurt them and hurt US citizens.

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US to hike H1B visas, merit will count for green cards [View all] alp227 Apr 2013 OP

cue the offshore whores to tell us why this is a win-win for us Skittles Apr 2013 #1

I guess they realize today isn't the day to piss us off DainBramaged Apr 2013 #15

when folk with so-called masters degrees Skittles Apr 2013 #148

Because it doesn't just affect outsourcing giants. Arkana Apr 2013 #16

Thanks, Arkana n/t WilmywoodNCparalegal Apr 2013 #21

H1-B is a program milked by the consulting firms, Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #28

Thanks for proving my point, Sparky! Arkana Apr 2013 #34

You're welcome...nt Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #36

Actually, what I take from this little exchange Occulus Apr 2013 #41

Seeing as how I'm one of those IT workers who gets hit over the head Arkana Apr 2013 #57

Perhaps help our immigration process so they don't have to wait over TEN YEARS to become a citizen? cascadiance Apr 2013 #60

The very nature of the H1-B Visa, keeps people from building lives here. Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #61

This is about increasing the number of visas not about re-issuing visas for people JDPriestly Apr 2013 #73

I thought H1B visas were temporary, 5-year visas LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #113

Exchange professors should not be here on H1-B visas. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #189

wow...you called him Sparky markiv Apr 2013 #212

"worker from India with years of experience " DainBramaged Apr 2013 #239

Cue the hypocritical, xenophobic comments of people who claim to be for human equality. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #48

you have ZERO CLUE Skittles Apr 2013 #80

Zero clue about what? harmonicon Apr 2013 #92

MY MUM WAS A PERMANENT RESIDENT ALIEN (re: GREEN CARD) Skittles Apr 2013 #100

So, what is it that I have zero clue about? harmonicon Apr 2013 #103

you think anyone anti-offshoring is a xenophobe Skittles Apr 2013 #106

This has nothing to do with offshoring. harmonicon Apr 2013 #108

offshoring, inshoring, IT'S ALL PIMPING Skittles Apr 2013 #109

Which type of whore do you like? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #110

Which offshoring corporation do you work for? nt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #114

None. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #128

nothing to do with offshoring? tell that to Infosys markiv Apr 2013 #209

Nice find! OhioChick Apr 2013 #211

notice they DID NOT say that they would have markiv Apr 2013 #213

Don't want to have to pay those Americans a living wage! OhioChick Apr 2013 #214

Would you rather the jobs be done here or offshore? Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #68

HERE - by people who cannot find jobs Skittles Apr 2013 #81

DU's own "AZLady" trained FOUR H-1B's to replace her at a LOWER wage OhioChick Apr 2013 #95

and it probably took four of them to do her job Skittles Apr 2013 #101

Absolutely! n/t OhioChick Apr 2013 #126

I called someone at 3 in the morning Skittles Apr 2013 #147

that arguement has been 100 percent discredited markiv Apr 2013 #203

Well this is conceding we have no intention of giving our kids a decent education. dkf Apr 2013 #2

Yep. djean111 Apr 2013 #3

Great word "Excrescence..nt Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #139

India provides free tuition to its citizens fasttense Apr 2013 #5

I know what you're saying, but considering slavery was legal closeupready Apr 2013 #22

Not only not educating them, we're denying them Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #29

Agreed. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #37

Yep. No way that Americans can compete against there foreign supergeniuses Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #66

There are plenty of people here with the expertise. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #116

You're absolutely right and comp science enrollments are soaring and have been the past few years OhioChick Apr 2013 #124

no, it's conceding that we're displacing our educated kids (and their parents) markiv Apr 2013 #210

Which is worse... dkf Apr 2013 #215

Just when you think it's not possible for this government to be any more brazen. nt Jerry442 Apr 2013 #4

Wow, whore for the corporations and cut-off families JCMach1 Apr 2013 #6

There should be unlimited immigration from everywhere. graham4anything Apr 2013 #7

"Why should someone who is Asian or from India be excluded just because of who they are?" mac56 Apr 2013 #8

Americans are magical? harmonicon Apr 2013 #51

Nope. avaistheone1 Apr 2013 #63

Limits on trade Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #233

My ancestors were poor, escaping religious persecution, seeking to work hard JDPriestly Apr 2013 #77

worthy of its own thread Skittles Apr 2013 #84

Who the FUCK are "our" children? harmonicon Apr 2013 #90

Who is paying you to do PR for corporations? LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #121

Who failed to explain cognitive dissonance to you? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #125

If we should be all "equal" then why don't you argue for OUR right to have an equal cost of living.. cascadiance Apr 2013 #145

I'm largely in agreement with you, but this thread was bout a type of immigration. harmonicon Apr 2013 #146

Well, if you were offered $400k a year for moving across the world for a few years, would you do it? cascadiance Apr 2013 #149

So, give all immigrants green cards instead of temporary visas. harmonicon Apr 2013 #154

I want people who want to move here for a job to be looking to become a citizen here... cascadiance Apr 2013 #155

That's pretty insulting to a lot of people in a lot of different ways. harmonicon Apr 2013 #157

These "rules" have been touted before and haven't been enforced. cascadiance Apr 2013 #159

India is not a great place to live. If it were, we would not have so many Indians JDPriestly Apr 2013 #191

I have no loyalty to our country, but I can work there without a visa. harmonicon Apr 2013 #198

' I have no loyalty to our country' markiv Apr 2013 #217

Yes, it does. harmonicon Apr 2013 #220

well, being anti-country loyalty makes great credentials markiv Apr 2013 #223

According to this study "nationalism" is the one common thread uniting far-right groups. pampango Apr 2013 #226

Try going to another country and just getting a job and living there. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #179

I didn't read past the first sentence of this. Read my profile. harmonicon Apr 2013 #183

Have you noticed that I have lived in other countries? If you read my posts, you know JDPriestly Apr 2013 #192

Once again, we just disagree on an absolutely fundamental level. harmonicon Apr 2013 #193

We pay the taxes that support this nation's infrastructure LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #118

People working in the US on visas are paying US taxes. harmonicon Apr 2013 #122

You could have fooled me. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #127

I care very deeply about Americans. harmonicon Apr 2013 #130

You sound like one of those "I love humanity -- LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #133

Visa workers are paying US taxes however OhioChick Apr 2013 #131

Are they? Prove it. nt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #134

Umm... I don't have immediate access to every worker's tax forms. harmonicon Apr 2013 #135

No. No. There needs to be an even playing field for your utopia to work. djean111 Apr 2013 #9

Good idea. Tuition in the US should be free. harmonicon Apr 2013 #52

call back with your pro-h-1b arguements when tuition IS free markiv Apr 2013 #218

Whose kids? I don't have any kids. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #221

so you dont believe in country loyalty, you dont care about USA kids markiv Apr 2013 #224

Yep, I love puppies. harmonicon Apr 2013 #227

OK, I'll see your idea and raise you. Jerry442 Apr 2013 #11

Thank you. Finally, someone who doesn't curl up into a xenophobic ball Arkana Apr 2013 #19

It's not about xenophobia Bradical79 Apr 2013 #23

I don't deny that it's a problem for US citizens. Arkana Apr 2013 #26

The reality is: the Chamber of Commerce has bought and paid for immigration policy. alp227 Apr 2013 #45

When their families live with a cost of living ONE TENTH of what we as American families live at... cascadiance Apr 2013 #46

^ THIS ^ mac56 Apr 2013 #69

Yes, yes, yes! Immigration:OK. H1B indentured servitude: not OK. nt Jerry442 Apr 2013 #83

Yes. That is why I support the policy behind the Dream Act. People who want to stay JDPriestly Apr 2013 #195

Absolutely sikofit3 Apr 2013 #72

But calling people xenophobic because they support jobs for people who are citizens or residents davidpdx Apr 2013 #235

Your post might be more believable if it was a tad more reality-based. jeff47 Apr 2013 #164

And think how well they would do if they took their experience and know-how and JDPriestly Apr 2013 #194

+100 nt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #123

MY MUM WAS NOT AMERICAN Skittles Apr 2013 #82

Magical thinking. Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #30

Wake up... ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #32

Knowing what American students go through to get into medical school, JDPriestly Apr 2013 #197

Meanwhile, American kids with college degrees work at McDonalds. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #39

Why should Americans come first? harmonicon Apr 2013 #55

"Apart from an accident of birth, there's nothing that makes me an American." mac56 Apr 2013 #70

that's a live one Skittles Apr 2013 #85

Is "they" me? harmonicon Apr 2013 #87

It isn't a matter of "coming first." It's a matter of the responsibility and duty of the JDPriestly Apr 2013 #71

You can't just go making up your own facts. harmonicon Apr 2013 #88

You might try reality some time. It's refreshing. jeff47 Apr 2013 #165

If people want the jobs so bad, work them for 40k a year. harmonicon Apr 2013 #168

Because the companies won't hire the US citizen at $40k/year jeff47 Apr 2013 #171

Two things: harmonicon Apr 2013 #175

Again, the H-1B is utterly unnecessary jeff47 Apr 2013 #177

Immigrant/citizen, it's all the same to me. harmonicon Apr 2013 #180

The H-1B blocks that. jeff47 Apr 2013 #185

I don't hate the visa, because I don't hate the person who would use it to make their life better. harmonicon Apr 2013 #190

Immigrant/citizen, it's all the same to me. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #199

Yes, it's all the same to me. harmonicon Apr 2013 #200

Don't let the door hit you on the butt LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #132

it shows nt markiv Apr 2013 #219

Thank you. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #222

I cannot fucking believe there's something I'm in 100% agreement with you about!! (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #49

I'm not opposed to immigration, but it should be first-come-first-serve. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #75

Would those Asian nations let thousands upon thousands of Americans take they good jobs? LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #120

We haven't even recovered the jobs lost in 2007 FreakinDJ Apr 2013 #10

Sound like they are putting the finishing touches on the TPP.... midnight Apr 2013 #12

Fuck DainBramaged Apr 2013 #13

Disgusting ramapo Apr 2013 #14

And why are citizens better than other people? harmonicon Apr 2013 #50

Face-Palm ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #76

I'll let you work out most of the logical contradictions you made by yourself. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #89

And I'll leave you to enjoy your Fairies, Mermaids and Gnomes. n/t ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #94

Radio Gnome Invisible, all the way. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #99

Seriously? ramapo Apr 2013 #115

Your answer to my question seems to be "because... ummm... just because." harmonicon Apr 2013 #119

Yes, just because ramapo Apr 2013 #141

I agree that representatives should work for their constituents. harmonicon Apr 2013 #144

This has nothing to do with inherent rights ramapo Apr 2013 #152

I see it as only being about inherent rights. harmonicon Apr 2013 #153

Being born outside the U.S. affords you SPECIAL PRIVILEGES of being able to pay less... cascadiance Apr 2013 #156

So we should all be serfs, forever tied to the land of our birth? harmonicon Apr 2013 #158

or be serfs forever being forced to travel the world to survive? cascadiance Apr 2013 #160

I have one very plain, simple, and clear agenda. harmonicon Apr 2013 #161

But those who get screwed by a high cost of living with this "equality", SCREW THEM, right? n/t cascadiance Apr 2013 #162

Hate and fear should not be obstacles to doing the right thing. harmonicon Apr 2013 #163

The hate and fear are your interpretation jeff47 Apr 2013 #167

If the going rate falls by 50%, that's the new going rate. harmonicon Apr 2013 #170

What you don't get is that's not the going rate. jeff47 Apr 2013 #172

Wait... which is it? harmonicon Apr 2013 #176

Oh for fuck sake, you're not even bothering to read, are you? jeff47 Apr 2013 #181

By getting that H1-B visa and job offer in the US, that worker now has one more job open to them. harmonicon Apr 2013 #184

You were just arguing it was about freedom. Now you're arguing slavery is freedom. jeff47 Apr 2013 #186

Oh, yes, it's slavery. harmonicon Apr 2013 #187

Yes. If you cannot sell your labor freely in a market in competition with other employees, JDPriestly Apr 2013 #205

Well then, we're all slaves, dude. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #206

Yes. The H1-B visas work to skew the job market. That is precisely what they do. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #202

Sounds like you are advocating either anarchy or an international dictatorship. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #201

I'm an anarchist. I'm happy to say so. harmonicon Apr 2013 #204

It may be arbitrary, but it allows us to live in an organized society. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #231

I don't know why I bother but.... ramapo Apr 2013 #246

Utopia may not exist in our lifetime, but sensible immigration policy might. harmonicon Apr 2013 #248

So you're for outsourcing too right? Union Scribe Apr 2013 #140

I think "outsourcing" is basically a meaningless term at this point. harmonicon Apr 2013 #142

Because too many Americans have jobs, I gather. valerief Apr 2013 #17

Another day, another kick in the teeth. forestpath Apr 2013 #18

Goddamnit LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #20

And your family came to the US from where? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #58

FYI it took my parents a HELL of a lot to get immigration papers to the US LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #64

Read your last sentence again yourself. harmonicon Apr 2013 #86

My brother-in-law would be homeless now LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #93

That's right, when your parents came to the US there was 0% unemployment. harmonicon Apr 2013 #97

They didn't come here with hundreds of thousands of other Estonians LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #111

Foreigners working in the US still pay taxes, you know. harmonicon Apr 2013 #117

I would bet that his/her parents came here at a time in which the US was expanding JDPriestly Apr 2013 #207

Really? During Jim Crow... harmonicon Apr 2013 #208

In the North (no real Jim Crow) and after WWII.` JDPriestly Apr 2013 #230

Oh, yeah, there was no racial discrimination in the north at all. No sir. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #232

Not in the area in which I lived after WWII. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #245

Dude, I watched racial discrimination in hiring happen in 2006. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #247

You probably did. But to my mind and in my understanding, Jim Crow JDPriestly Apr 2013 #249

"... other countries protect the jobs of their citizens, unlike the U.S." - not true in Europe. pampango Apr 2013 #98

I am not any kind of expert political debater LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #112

Nope. jeff47 Apr 2013 #166

Double 'nope'. pampango Apr 2013 #173

So little math quiz jeff47 Apr 2013 #174

Another little math quiz. pampango Apr 2013 #188

"We're all citizens of the world, and we all have equal rights, mac56 Apr 2013 #96

No one should support this Bradical79 Apr 2013 #24

If we're going to level the playing field Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #31

So how about you get people to be as vocal about that idea as they are in their fear? harmonicon Apr 2013 #59

We have made a promise and are required by law to give equal protection of the law JDPriestly Apr 2013 #79

You mean and employer shouldn't hire the person they want for the job? harmonicon Apr 2013 #91

my guess is you profit from pimping off jobs to the lowest bidders Skittles Apr 2013 #102

You're wrong on both accounts. (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #104

yeah riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight Skittles Apr 2013 #105

You're calling me a liar? (nt) harmonicon Apr 2013 #107

Yeah, see, this is what Freepers do. Arkana Apr 2013 #150

I think that people who are citizens, people who were born here or are naturalized JDPriestly Apr 2013 #178

Human beings don't have rights because of what's written on paper. harmonicon Apr 2013 #182

Nearly right ... Nihil Apr 2013 #237

Isn't it just a difference of outlook? harmonicon Apr 2013 #238

Fair point. (n/t) Nihil Apr 2013 #242

In the 'real world' your 'rights' do depend "basically on luck & good fortune - the luck and good pampango Apr 2013 #240

And I agree with yours. Nihil Apr 2013 #243

Wage depression can always get through this Congress... Orsino Apr 2013 #25

Of course he will sign it... ChromeFoundry Apr 2013 #43

11 million undocumented workers depresses wages far more than 200K H1Bs. hugo_from_TN Apr 2013 #47

BOTH of these forms of slave labor are wrong... cascadiance Apr 2013 #53

Ah. One of those. n/t Orsino Apr 2013 #62

Utterly disgusting OhioChick Apr 2013 #27

Notice they shifted the debate from the 11 million to the H1-B Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #33

Yup, I saw that was snuck in. avaistheone1 Apr 2013 #65

No. JDPriestly Apr 2013 #35

Cut education here so we can hire cheaper from over there. L0oniX Apr 2013 #38

Not my field, but this article from a google search appears to contradict the OP. proverbialwisdom Apr 2013 #40

Hey Senate, how about tuition free higher education and 0 Visas magic59 Apr 2013 #42

Democrats supporting this absolute POS bill WILL get me to leave the Democratic Party!!! cascadiance Apr 2013 #44

Please read the details WilmywoodNCparalegal Apr 2013 #54

"Body shops" have worked around these kind of restrictions for decades... cascadiance Apr 2013 #56

They thumb their noses at the existing restrictions. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #129

How 'bout you list those details? jeff47 Apr 2013 #169

Good. Freddie Stubbs Apr 2013 #67

Headline not good, because it is only a Senate bill treestar Apr 2013 #74

Thats fuct up. darkangel218 Apr 2013 #78

Thank heavens for the Ignore feature. LiberalEsto Apr 2013 #136

+1000 n/t OhioChick Apr 2013 #137

Great idea. I agree. harmonicon Apr 2013 #138

It's not just about wages. Paul E Ester Apr 2013 #234

The TV show "Outsourced" had your idea about foreign countries. alp227 Apr 2013 #229

Low wage workers also face serious job competition from immigrants. limpyhobbler Apr 2013 #143

So let me see if I got this right: A country that's at 15% real unemployment . . . HughBeaumont Apr 2013 #151

Excellent post, HughBeaumont! OhioChick Apr 2013 #216

i think everyone was too damned depressed after reading it markiv Apr 2013 #225

excellent post. I would add one thing...exactly WHAT are laid off workers supposed to train for? antigop Apr 2013 #236

You speak for me Brother .... Trajan Apr 2013 #250

Good. I don't hate teh furriners, Nye Bevan Apr 2013 #196

I hate corporation-favoring zero-sum business practices, which job offshoring very much is. HughBeaumont Apr 2013 #244

Title is misleading. tarheelsunc Apr 2013 #228

Damn. Owl Apr 2013 #241