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In reply to the discussion: Land grab: Israeli govt backs bill to forcibly relocate up to 40,000 Bedouin villagers [View all]freshwest
(53,661 posts)37. Mosby, I won't go with the evocative language that offends you, as it's unproductive. Talk to me.
From the link, there are items not being discussed:
...The bill is expected to soon begin the legislative process in the Knesset. According to ACRI, the Prawer-Begin plan envisions the eviction of around 30 to 40,000 Bedouins, which will destroy their communal and social lifestyle and condemn them to poverty and unemployment.
Israel refuses to recognize 35 Bedouin villages in the Negev, which collectively house approximately 90,000 people nearly half of Israel's 210,000 Bedouins, according to data published by Bedouin-Jewish Justice in Israel. The villages are not on official maps and lack basic services like water, paved roads and electricity.
The other half of Israels Negev Bedouins lives in government-planned townships. Residents have complained over a lack of basic infrastructure, transportation, school and health facilities. Israels Bedouin townships repeatedly rank in the countrys lowest socioeconomic bracket.
These are the issues IMO:
The number of people to be moved from '35 villages' of 'illegal housing' is stated as being between 30K and 40K, less than half the 90K the article describes living there. So they are not all being moved. A larger group of Bedouins don't live in the Negev. The article doesn't mention them, nor does it say whether those living in the approved areas were forced there or volunteered.
The article doesn't provide the acreage, nor how well they currently live. It says the other half of the Bedouin who live in the 'government-planned townships' 'complained over a lack of basic infrastructure, transportation, school and health facilities.' This would explain the charge that they will be impoverished. If they were prosperous, they would get what they needed.
The ones protesting this move don't seem to want that. They choose to live without 'basic services like water, paved roads and electricity.' They feel it is their culture being attacked, perhaps, their ancient way of life. Clearly, they can't have both ways of living at the same time.
That's a nice picture of camels in the RT article. I suspect a way of living is in place that requires much more land to live. The native Americans roamed over large tracts of land which ended up turned over to a system of intensive land use. the society that took their land, did not consider them as 'employed' and their way of living was not respected.
It made room for more people, but at a cost to nature and the original peoples. We seem to have a clash of modern urban living and rural or nomadic lifestyle in this story. This is a world wide problem, not just Israel, in a crowded world.
Our concept of desert living in America is based on water piped in for homes, businesses and agriculture. Many believe it will collapse due to aquifer depletion or drought reducing the snowcap river flow. The Bedouin lifestyle may be more sustainable than the modern one in the long run.
Please answer these neutral questions for me if you will:
Do you see a humanitarian reason at work in relocation, to bring them into the larger Israeli society, or addressing the complaints part of the population is making?
With global climate change, will the Negev Desert be unable to support a less intensive land use culture or will it unable to support intensive use?
What is the pressing need, is there something about this area the OP isn't explaining, and that we who are less knowledgeahle about Israel have no way of knowing?
TIA if you want to try those.
...The bill is expected to soon begin the legislative process in the Knesset. According to ACRI, the Prawer-Begin plan envisions the eviction of around 30 to 40,000 Bedouins, which will destroy their communal and social lifestyle and condemn them to poverty and unemployment.
Israel refuses to recognize 35 Bedouin villages in the Negev, which collectively house approximately 90,000 people nearly half of Israel's 210,000 Bedouins, according to data published by Bedouin-Jewish Justice in Israel. The villages are not on official maps and lack basic services like water, paved roads and electricity.
The other half of Israels Negev Bedouins lives in government-planned townships. Residents have complained over a lack of basic infrastructure, transportation, school and health facilities. Israels Bedouin townships repeatedly rank in the countrys lowest socioeconomic bracket.
These are the issues IMO:
The number of people to be moved from '35 villages' of 'illegal housing' is stated as being between 30K and 40K, less than half the 90K the article describes living there. So they are not all being moved. A larger group of Bedouins don't live in the Negev. The article doesn't mention them, nor does it say whether those living in the approved areas were forced there or volunteered.
The article doesn't provide the acreage, nor how well they currently live. It says the other half of the Bedouin who live in the 'government-planned townships' 'complained over a lack of basic infrastructure, transportation, school and health facilities.' This would explain the charge that they will be impoverished. If they were prosperous, they would get what they needed.
The ones protesting this move don't seem to want that. They choose to live without 'basic services like water, paved roads and electricity.' They feel it is their culture being attacked, perhaps, their ancient way of life. Clearly, they can't have both ways of living at the same time.
That's a nice picture of camels in the RT article. I suspect a way of living is in place that requires much more land to live. The native Americans roamed over large tracts of land which ended up turned over to a system of intensive land use. the society that took their land, did not consider them as 'employed' and their way of living was not respected.
It made room for more people, but at a cost to nature and the original peoples. We seem to have a clash of modern urban living and rural or nomadic lifestyle in this story. This is a world wide problem, not just Israel, in a crowded world.
Our concept of desert living in America is based on water piped in for homes, businesses and agriculture. Many believe it will collapse due to aquifer depletion or drought reducing the snowcap river flow. The Bedouin lifestyle may be more sustainable than the modern one in the long run.
Please answer these neutral questions for me if you will:
Do you see a humanitarian reason at work in relocation, to bring them into the larger Israeli society, or addressing the complaints part of the population is making?
With global climate change, will the Negev Desert be unable to support a less intensive land use culture or will it unable to support intensive use?
What is the pressing need, is there something about this area the OP isn't explaining, and that we who are less knowledgeahle about Israel have no way of knowing?
TIA if you want to try those.
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Land grab: Israeli govt backs bill to forcibly relocate up to 40,000 Bedouin villagers [View all]
dipsydoodle
May 2013
OP
Just keep pushing them out of sight, guys. Maybe all your problems will just go away.
toby jo
May 2013
#2
Mosby, I won't go with the evocative language that offends you, as it's unproductive. Talk to me.
freshwest
May 2013
#37
it's ethnic cleansing and it's the same as was done to Native Americans in this country
CreekDog
May 2013
#33
"the creation of Israel was undoubtedly one of the worst mistakes of the 20th century"
oberliner
May 2013
#23
That narrative is about as good a summary as can be provided in one sentence.
Threedifferentones
May 2013
#45