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napoleon_in_rags

(3,992 posts)

87. +1 yeah, a lot of comments and very few reading the article.

Sun May 12, 2013, 09:10 PM

May 2013

One of the best parts:

Longden writes: "And in his quiet, Irish voice he said something very powerful, 'I don't want to know what other people have told you about yourself, I want to know about you.'

"It was the first time that I had been given the chance to see myself as a person with a life story, not as a genetically determined schizophrenic with aberrant brain chemicals and biological flaws and deficiencies that were beyond my power to heal."

That's very powerful stuff. And its ethical: Why? Because we don't freaking know what causes schizophrenia. So this false determinism really is a fraud. Yes, meds can help. But so can neuroplasticity, life circumstances, diet, etc. We owe sufferers of mental illness an HONEST report of how little we know.

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Medicine's big new battleground: does mental illness really exist? [View all] bananas May 2013 OP

This contradicts BainsBane May 2013 #1

Nope. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #14

That was a very "negative" reply, Bernardo. Would you like to talk about it? nt JustABozoOnThisBus May 2013 #75

Sure. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #77

Thanks for the more detailed response. JustABozoOnThisBus May 2013 #99

I have also made other posts in this thread. I don't think they deny all genetics. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #102

very witty, JABOTB!!! Skittles May 2013 #88

I originally posted the wrong link - please read the updated link. bananas May 2013 #23

I like this line: napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #2

You sound like you have never experienced mental illness. The problem with treating Maraya1969 May 2013 #6

Don't get me wrong... There are a time and place for meds napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #7

All illness is extremely complex,... Alkene May 2013 #41

You sound like you have never experienced a good behavioral psychologist. The problem with treating Junkpet May 2013 #113

That's actually an old view of an old idea bhikkhu May 2013 #68

Agreed Liberalynn May 2013 #76

My opinion is driven in part by my years of experience with mental illness. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #86

I would disagree. OrwellwasRight May 2013 #173

Good points bhikkhu May 2013 #183

personally, I think one or two 8-9 hour blocks of pure sleep helps more than any treatment. Sunlei May 2013 #101

When you are manic, you CAN'T sleep. n/t DebJ May 2013 #105

Then a Doctor should place the person in a sleep center for 10 hours under sleep meds. Sunlei May 2013 #116

That's not enough to quiet a manic brain. Sleep meds do not produce DebJ May 2013 #120

no meds the person takes, anesthesia under a Doctors watch at a sleep center. Sunlei May 2013 #123

anesthesia is not a drug? DebJ May 2013 #124

well its a shame you have to suffer without sleep but its your life. Sunlei May 2013 #125

Not me, a family member. DebJ May 2013 #126

How induced coma and sleep differ: DebJ May 2013 #127

more DebJ May 2013 #129

good articles, thank you for posting them. Sunlei May 2013 #189

Your welcome. n/t DebJ May 2013 #190

yes, I'm sure that kind of mental illness effects your entire family. Sunlei May 2013 #128

Such a sweet reply! n/t DebJ May 2013 #130

I suppose everyone has a pet theory on a universal solution quakerboy May 2013 #188

However I have never killed anyone get the red out May 2013 #103

I hear you. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #139

You're talking about mental illness in the context of The Sapranos!? Neoma May 2013 #133

Art is not truth, art is the lie which allows us to approach truth. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #137

Uh huh... Neoma May 2013 #140

But you see, you actually get at the very CORE of the problem with the status quo. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #152

You just don't get it do you? Neoma May 2013 #159

No, YOU just don't get it. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #163

And that work is/was...? nt Union Scribe May 2013 #166

Puh-lease. Neoma May 2013 #168

No, you've been systematically distorting my words. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #171

Your words? Right, let's go down the list. Neoma May 2013 #177

Great response. DerpyShell67 May 2013 #178

Welcome to DU my friend! hrmjustin May 2013 #184

You seem to be reading between the lines with me... napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #179

There is no label of severely mentally ill in the mental health community. Neoma May 2013 #182

you've also not once recognized that medication is beneficial to people fizzgig May 2013 #170

I have recognized that in many responses. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #172

we don't want people to look at us with sympathy fizzgig May 2013 #169

i triaged for years fizzgig May 2013 #147

GREAT post. nt Union Scribe May 2013 #167

Now THAT is "nuts" - Hell Hath No Fury May 2013 #3

I think its addressing a kind of scope creep with the psyche meds. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #8

You have cut to the heart of the matter. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #15

Well said IMO!!! Psychoactive pharmaceuticals can be a RKP5637 May 2013 #22

And that is what the article is keying off of, really....DSM revisions. MADem May 2013 #46

They jumped the shark when they said that grief lasting more than two weeks was a Squinch May 2013 #36

yes, they really jumped the shark with that one nt steve2470 May 2013 #94

Nonsense. Union Scribe May 2013 #143

No, not nonsense. Squinch May 2013 #176

Then I have a question about this.......... Maraya1969 May 2013 #4

Some people benefit from medications. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #16

There is a video on Youtube called "The biology of belief" and the man speaking was a pioneer Maraya1969 May 2013 #83

A very interesting area of research is EpiGenetics: study of factors outside of DNA affecting gene Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #84

+1 agree it's positively fascinating -how emotions and behaviors/experiences alter your health. n/t JudyM May 2013 #161

3 generations in my family have a bird phobia. i'm sure it's genetic.... HiPointDem May 2013 #71

Well, the latter might very well be more complex than that. antigone382 May 2013 #141

at some level basically indistinguishable from mental illness. and the bird phobia? 3 generations HiPointDem May 2013 #149

I don't dispute that the bird phobia might well be genetic. antigone382 May 2013 #164

i dispute it. we learn what the world is, how to interpret it, who we are and how to behave HiPointDem May 2013 #175

In that case I might have misinterpreted you from the beginning. antigone382 May 2013 #187

Im thinking its time some of the folks over iamthebandfanman May 2013 #5

Contradicted by this dipsydoodle May 2013 #9

Yes/no. Alzheimer's has real physical elements but that doesn't contradict the call the doctors make Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #18

I don't really understand how that's a contradiction. antigone382 May 2013 #142

Hmmm Psychologists can't use meds... uriel1972 May 2013 #10

I don't expext a talking therapy to "cure" a busted brain. mwooldri May 2013 #42

I agree with most of your points uriel1972 May 2013 #64

'all' 'mental illnesses' have biological underpinnings in the same sense that life has biological HiPointDem May 2013 #150

Very Well said Liberalynn May 2013 #79

I am torn about this. I have a cousin that I am very close to who has been diagnosed AnnieK401 May 2013 #11

Yep, agree! It's a mix and one size does not fit all. I had some RKP5637 May 2013 #27

for the Tea/Repukes it IS their NORM...the 1% depends on that hue May 2013 #12

Sounds like the nature or nurture argument all over again, or still. fasttense May 2013 #13

Good post, absolutely. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #19

Very well said. Basically what I was trying to say below but better... Locut0s May 2013 #26

+++ 1,000 +++ n/t RKP5637 May 2013 #31

my ex was bipolar, w/ additional Dx of manic-depression, suicidal ChairmanAgnostic May 2013 #135

Extremely well said!!! n/t RKP5637 May 2013 #28

Good point there, raccoon May 2013 #39

Very astute post. Thanks! nolabear May 2013 #63

It's an interesting dilemma. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #138

'There are genes that do NOT turn on, like depression' = and which genes are those, specifically? HiPointDem May 2013 #151

They would also like you to know that tin foil hats do indeed protect you from prying brain scans. originalpckelly May 2013 #17

Biological factors. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #29

+1 Union Scribe May 2013 #144

BULLSHIT. The move has merit but as it's stated it's bullshit... Locut0s May 2013 #20

Of course biology plays a role TM99 May 2013 #45

The article refers to every category of mental illness, does it not? DebJ May 2013 #104

This is one position taken TM99 May 2013 #109

one thing i haven't seen mentioned in this thread as a cause of depression DebJ May 2013 #111

Well you actually are addressing something that is TM99 May 2013 #114

Can we talk? No, seriously. Sivafae May 2013 #117

Please drop me a PM TM99 May 2013 #119

Wow. It is supposed to be standard medical practice, from DebJ May 2013 #121

Actually my case is not that unique. TM99 May 2013 #131

i will agree that some psychiatrists are very quick to DebJ May 2013 #134

If most of the population is sick Turbineguy May 2013 #21

Yes, would you ask the same if most of the population had emphysema... uriel1972 May 2013 #24

Emphysema has a material cause. One questions 'mental illness' when most of the population HiPointDem May 2013 #74

Since the defects don't affect reproduction Union Scribe May 2013 #145

they would affect both reproduction and survival. if you're hallucinating, collapsed into yourself HiPointDem May 2013 #148

Not all mental illness expresses itself in a way that Union Scribe May 2013 #165

That's a different argument than the one being made in the OP... Locut0s May 2013 #25

The anti-psychiatry movement rears its head again... JCMach1 May 2013 #30

The idea that there is no such thing as mental illness is f***ing nuts! rox63 May 2013 #32

'organic brain disorders' aren't genetic; they're disease states with physical causes and can HiPointDem May 2013 #153

Schizophrenia and bipolar are very likely to have organic causes rox63 May 2013 #162

This reminds me about a conversation I had with my therapist about LuvNewcastle May 2013 #33

DCP: "Your body gets ill...er.. except for that brain part. Schema Thing May 2013 #34

Nailed it, right there. (nt) Posteritatis May 2013 #58

except your 'brain part' does get ill, and causes identifiable manifestations. it just happens HiPointDem May 2013 #154

let's begin by eliminating the not-guilt due to insanity plea samsingh May 2013 #35

well the insurance companies will be doing a happy dance madrchsod May 2013 #37

I have two thoughts on this. timdog44 May 2013 #38

I totally agree Liberalynn May 2013 #80

insulin actually is a cure of sorts for diabetes, if the diabetes is caused by the body's inability HiPointDem May 2013 #155

And you are right. timdog44 May 2013 #160

Sounds like goddamned conservative religious logic Hugabear May 2013 #40

This is beyond ridiculous MynameisBlarney May 2013 #43

Seems to be opposite of where NIMH just went with RDoC HereSince1628 May 2013 #44

NIMH finally acknowledged that psychiatric diagnoses have no biological basis. bananas May 2013 #81

Take a chill pill Android3.14 May 2013 #47

+1 yeah, a lot of comments and very few reading the article. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #87

Psychologists Can Be Helpful Demeter May 2013 #48

if it's genetic and organic, what are the biomarkers? answer: there aren't any. HiPointDem May 2013 #156

As a mental health professional I both disagree and agree. nolabear May 2013 #49

+1. " You are complex, and wonderful, and sometimes incomprehensible" Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #53

Well said. CanSocDem May 2013 #55

Thanks, Cher. I appreciate those kind words. nolabear May 2013 #62

excellent post nt steve2470 May 2013 #93

How do these people explain Autism and other disorders that are not products of breakdown, then? 1monster May 2013 #50

Please xpost this at Mental Health Information group. elleng May 2013 #51

just bullshit. mopinko May 2013 #52

As is your reply. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #54

Lol. Neoma May 2013 #56

No. I attacked the post, not the person. And so what if they have been appointed to their position? Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #59

Who said I was appealing to her authority? I simply laughed. Neoma May 2013 #60

Thank you get the red out May 2013 #106

'A post that calls something "bullshit" without any analysis or discussion is not worthy of respect' postatomic May 2013 #65

Sure. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #67

I dunno. Do physical illnesses really exist? (nt) Posteritatis May 2013 #57

No, they're punishment for sinning Hugabear May 2013 #91

Ahh, yes. And mental ones are punishments according to everyone else! Posteritatis May 2013 #97

I don't suppose the author has interviewed many schizophrenics Warpy May 2013 #61

adolescence isn't a life change? the biological determinists would *love* to find some HiPointDem May 2013 #157

Adolescence is a time of profound changes in brain wiring Warpy May 2013 #158

Don't forget... Archae May 2013 #66

You can add 'Alien Abductions' postatomic May 2013 #69

I know. Believe me, I know. Archae May 2013 #82

It's not the Religion, it is the surrounding tools that make religion effective. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #85

Could you be any more inaccurate and inflammatory? TM99 May 2013 #70

like pharma-therapy isn't fad-driven? i can write the same history about each generation of HiPointDem May 2013 #72

Sounds like another rationale to cut funding, no mattter what. freshwest May 2013 #73

Your post is the winner get the red out May 2013 #107

'You're cured! It's a miracle!' Meaning insurance won't cover it, so it doesn't exist. Only one freshwest May 2013 #115

If this makes mental health treatment less pharmacutical, less in a correctional facility .... marble falls May 2013 #78

You gotta draw the line in the sand somewhere. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #89

You're right. Just because a set of behaviors can be described and labeled ... marble falls May 2013 #100

R.D. Laing made the same arguments decades ago - Good luck Scientologists with this new attempt NoodleyAppendage May 2013 #90

I agree steve2470 May 2013 #92

Great post. nt Union Scribe May 2013 #146

The scientologists will be thrilled. applegrove May 2013 #95

They could relieve the pressure get the red out May 2013 #108

My two cents: King_Klonopin May 2013 #96

Changing the perception of one's problems may help for a while. mia May 2013 #98

Anybody who would try to claim that schizophrenia kestrel91316 May 2013 #110

Denial comes more from stupidity or hatred. Neoma May 2013 #112

Of course it doesn't nolabels May 2013 #118

Who is Sane? mattnapa May 2013 #122

someone truly sane and brilliant might be institutionalized. ChairmanAgnostic May 2013 #136

great. now insurance providers won't cover treatment rollin74 May 2013 #132

+10.000 smirkymonkey May 2013 #181

As someone with a mental illness, this is insulting and disturbing. unreadierLizard May 2013 #174

K&R DeSwiss May 2013 #180

I have always figured that everyone is crazy. leftyladyfrommo May 2013 #185

'Hiding' it... CanSocDem May 2013 #186