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OrwellwasRight

(5,317 posts)

173. I would disagree.

Thu May 16, 2013, 02:04 PM

May 2013

Your position denies the success of Alcoholics Anonymous and similar Twelve Step programs. Those aren't about drugs. They are in fact about changing your patterns of thinking, speaking, and acting. You certainly can learn to think differently and respond differently to the same stimuli. In fact, I would argue that learning to change your own patterns of behavior is the only thing that will ever truly solve depression. Taking drugs just covers it up.

And don't tell me I don't know about mental illness. I certainly do and have no desire to parade my family's multiple tragedies and challenges out on DU to prove myself to you. How about a simple "I disagree"? Or even an "I disagree for multiple reasons, but I won't belittle you by saying your opinion must be due to your lack of experience with mental illness. I respect your right to have what in my view is a wrong opinion and won't belittle it by making wild judgments about what your experience must have been."

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Medicine's big new battleground: does mental illness really exist? [View all] bananas May 2013 OP

This contradicts BainsBane May 2013 #1

Nope. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #14

That was a very "negative" reply, Bernardo. Would you like to talk about it? nt JustABozoOnThisBus May 2013 #75

Sure. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #77

Thanks for the more detailed response. JustABozoOnThisBus May 2013 #99

I have also made other posts in this thread. I don't think they deny all genetics. nt Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #102

very witty, JABOTB!!! Skittles May 2013 #88

I originally posted the wrong link - please read the updated link. bananas May 2013 #23

I like this line: napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #2

You sound like you have never experienced mental illness. The problem with treating Maraya1969 May 2013 #6

Don't get me wrong... There are a time and place for meds napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #7

All illness is extremely complex,... Alkene May 2013 #41

You sound like you have never experienced a good behavioral psychologist. The problem with treating Junkpet May 2013 #113

That's actually an old view of an old idea bhikkhu May 2013 #68

Agreed Liberalynn May 2013 #76

My opinion is driven in part by my years of experience with mental illness. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #86

I would disagree. OrwellwasRight May 2013 #173

Good points bhikkhu May 2013 #183

personally, I think one or two 8-9 hour blocks of pure sleep helps more than any treatment. Sunlei May 2013 #101

When you are manic, you CAN'T sleep. n/t DebJ May 2013 #105

Then a Doctor should place the person in a sleep center for 10 hours under sleep meds. Sunlei May 2013 #116

That's not enough to quiet a manic brain. Sleep meds do not produce DebJ May 2013 #120

no meds the person takes, anesthesia under a Doctors watch at a sleep center. Sunlei May 2013 #123

anesthesia is not a drug? DebJ May 2013 #124

well its a shame you have to suffer without sleep but its your life. Sunlei May 2013 #125

Not me, a family member. DebJ May 2013 #126

How induced coma and sleep differ: DebJ May 2013 #127

more DebJ May 2013 #129

good articles, thank you for posting them. Sunlei May 2013 #189

Your welcome. n/t DebJ May 2013 #190

yes, I'm sure that kind of mental illness effects your entire family. Sunlei May 2013 #128

Such a sweet reply! n/t DebJ May 2013 #130

I suppose everyone has a pet theory on a universal solution quakerboy May 2013 #188

However I have never killed anyone get the red out May 2013 #103

I hear you. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #139

You're talking about mental illness in the context of The Sapranos!? Neoma May 2013 #133

Art is not truth, art is the lie which allows us to approach truth. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #137

Uh huh... Neoma May 2013 #140

But you see, you actually get at the very CORE of the problem with the status quo. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #152

You just don't get it do you? Neoma May 2013 #159

No, YOU just don't get it. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #163

And that work is/was...? nt Union Scribe May 2013 #166

Puh-lease. Neoma May 2013 #168

No, you've been systematically distorting my words. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #171

Your words? Right, let's go down the list. Neoma May 2013 #177

Great response. DerpyShell67 May 2013 #178

Welcome to DU my friend! hrmjustin May 2013 #184

You seem to be reading between the lines with me... napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #179

There is no label of severely mentally ill in the mental health community. Neoma May 2013 #182

you've also not once recognized that medication is beneficial to people fizzgig May 2013 #170

I have recognized that in many responses. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #172

we don't want people to look at us with sympathy fizzgig May 2013 #169

i triaged for years fizzgig May 2013 #147

GREAT post. nt Union Scribe May 2013 #167

Now THAT is "nuts" - Hell Hath No Fury May 2013 #3

I think its addressing a kind of scope creep with the psyche meds. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #8

You have cut to the heart of the matter. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #15

Well said IMO!!! Psychoactive pharmaceuticals can be a RKP5637 May 2013 #22

And that is what the article is keying off of, really....DSM revisions. MADem May 2013 #46

They jumped the shark when they said that grief lasting more than two weeks was a Squinch May 2013 #36

yes, they really jumped the shark with that one nt steve2470 May 2013 #94

Nonsense. Union Scribe May 2013 #143

No, not nonsense. Squinch May 2013 #176

Then I have a question about this.......... Maraya1969 May 2013 #4

Some people benefit from medications. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #16

There is a video on Youtube called "The biology of belief" and the man speaking was a pioneer Maraya1969 May 2013 #83

A very interesting area of research is EpiGenetics: study of factors outside of DNA affecting gene Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #84

+1 agree it's positively fascinating -how emotions and behaviors/experiences alter your health. n/t JudyM May 2013 #161

3 generations in my family have a bird phobia. i'm sure it's genetic.... HiPointDem May 2013 #71

Well, the latter might very well be more complex than that. antigone382 May 2013 #141

at some level basically indistinguishable from mental illness. and the bird phobia? 3 generations HiPointDem May 2013 #149

I don't dispute that the bird phobia might well be genetic. antigone382 May 2013 #164

i dispute it. we learn what the world is, how to interpret it, who we are and how to behave HiPointDem May 2013 #175

In that case I might have misinterpreted you from the beginning. antigone382 May 2013 #187

Im thinking its time some of the folks over iamthebandfanman May 2013 #5

Contradicted by this dipsydoodle May 2013 #9

Yes/no. Alzheimer's has real physical elements but that doesn't contradict the call the doctors make Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #18

I don't really understand how that's a contradiction. antigone382 May 2013 #142

Hmmm Psychologists can't use meds... uriel1972 May 2013 #10

I don't expext a talking therapy to "cure" a busted brain. mwooldri May 2013 #42

I agree with most of your points uriel1972 May 2013 #64

'all' 'mental illnesses' have biological underpinnings in the same sense that life has biological HiPointDem May 2013 #150

Very Well said Liberalynn May 2013 #79

I am torn about this. I have a cousin that I am very close to who has been diagnosed AnnieK401 May 2013 #11

Yep, agree! It's a mix and one size does not fit all. I had some RKP5637 May 2013 #27

for the Tea/Repukes it IS their NORM...the 1% depends on that hue May 2013 #12

Sounds like the nature or nurture argument all over again, or still. fasttense May 2013 #13

Good post, absolutely. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #19

Very well said. Basically what I was trying to say below but better... Locut0s May 2013 #26

+++ 1,000 +++ n/t RKP5637 May 2013 #31

my ex was bipolar, w/ additional Dx of manic-depression, suicidal ChairmanAgnostic May 2013 #135

Extremely well said!!! n/t RKP5637 May 2013 #28

Good point there, raccoon May 2013 #39

Very astute post. Thanks! nolabear May 2013 #63

It's an interesting dilemma. lumberjack_jeff May 2013 #138

'There are genes that do NOT turn on, like depression' = and which genes are those, specifically? HiPointDem May 2013 #151

They would also like you to know that tin foil hats do indeed protect you from prying brain scans. originalpckelly May 2013 #17

Biological factors. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #29

+1 Union Scribe May 2013 #144

BULLSHIT. The move has merit but as it's stated it's bullshit... Locut0s May 2013 #20

Of course biology plays a role TM99 May 2013 #45

The article refers to every category of mental illness, does it not? DebJ May 2013 #104

This is one position taken TM99 May 2013 #109

one thing i haven't seen mentioned in this thread as a cause of depression DebJ May 2013 #111

Well you actually are addressing something that is TM99 May 2013 #114

Can we talk? No, seriously. Sivafae May 2013 #117

Please drop me a PM TM99 May 2013 #119

Wow. It is supposed to be standard medical practice, from DebJ May 2013 #121

Actually my case is not that unique. TM99 May 2013 #131

i will agree that some psychiatrists are very quick to DebJ May 2013 #134

If most of the population is sick Turbineguy May 2013 #21

Yes, would you ask the same if most of the population had emphysema... uriel1972 May 2013 #24

Emphysema has a material cause. One questions 'mental illness' when most of the population HiPointDem May 2013 #74

Since the defects don't affect reproduction Union Scribe May 2013 #145

they would affect both reproduction and survival. if you're hallucinating, collapsed into yourself HiPointDem May 2013 #148

Not all mental illness expresses itself in a way that Union Scribe May 2013 #165

That's a different argument than the one being made in the OP... Locut0s May 2013 #25

The anti-psychiatry movement rears its head again... JCMach1 May 2013 #30

The idea that there is no such thing as mental illness is f***ing nuts! rox63 May 2013 #32

'organic brain disorders' aren't genetic; they're disease states with physical causes and can HiPointDem May 2013 #153

Schizophrenia and bipolar are very likely to have organic causes rox63 May 2013 #162

This reminds me about a conversation I had with my therapist about LuvNewcastle May 2013 #33

DCP: "Your body gets ill...er.. except for that brain part. Schema Thing May 2013 #34

Nailed it, right there. (nt) Posteritatis May 2013 #58

except your 'brain part' does get ill, and causes identifiable manifestations. it just happens HiPointDem May 2013 #154

let's begin by eliminating the not-guilt due to insanity plea samsingh May 2013 #35

well the insurance companies will be doing a happy dance madrchsod May 2013 #37

I have two thoughts on this. timdog44 May 2013 #38

I totally agree Liberalynn May 2013 #80

insulin actually is a cure of sorts for diabetes, if the diabetes is caused by the body's inability HiPointDem May 2013 #155

And you are right. timdog44 May 2013 #160

Sounds like goddamned conservative religious logic Hugabear May 2013 #40

This is beyond ridiculous MynameisBlarney May 2013 #43

Seems to be opposite of where NIMH just went with RDoC HereSince1628 May 2013 #44

NIMH finally acknowledged that psychiatric diagnoses have no biological basis. bananas May 2013 #81

Take a chill pill Android3.14 May 2013 #47

+1 yeah, a lot of comments and very few reading the article. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #87

Psychologists Can Be Helpful Demeter May 2013 #48

if it's genetic and organic, what are the biomarkers? answer: there aren't any. HiPointDem May 2013 #156

As a mental health professional I both disagree and agree. nolabear May 2013 #49

+1. " You are complex, and wonderful, and sometimes incomprehensible" Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #53

Well said. CanSocDem May 2013 #55

Thanks, Cher. I appreciate those kind words. nolabear May 2013 #62

excellent post nt steve2470 May 2013 #93

How do these people explain Autism and other disorders that are not products of breakdown, then? 1monster May 2013 #50

Please xpost this at Mental Health Information group. elleng May 2013 #51

just bullshit. mopinko May 2013 #52

As is your reply. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #54

Lol. Neoma May 2013 #56

No. I attacked the post, not the person. And so what if they have been appointed to their position? Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #59

Who said I was appealing to her authority? I simply laughed. Neoma May 2013 #60

Thank you get the red out May 2013 #106

'A post that calls something "bullshit" without any analysis or discussion is not worthy of respect' postatomic May 2013 #65

Sure. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #67

I dunno. Do physical illnesses really exist? (nt) Posteritatis May 2013 #57

No, they're punishment for sinning Hugabear May 2013 #91

Ahh, yes. And mental ones are punishments according to everyone else! Posteritatis May 2013 #97

I don't suppose the author has interviewed many schizophrenics Warpy May 2013 #61

adolescence isn't a life change? the biological determinists would *love* to find some HiPointDem May 2013 #157

Adolescence is a time of profound changes in brain wiring Warpy May 2013 #158

Don't forget... Archae May 2013 #66

You can add 'Alien Abductions' postatomic May 2013 #69

I know. Believe me, I know. Archae May 2013 #82

It's not the Religion, it is the surrounding tools that make religion effective. Bernardo de La Paz May 2013 #85

Could you be any more inaccurate and inflammatory? TM99 May 2013 #70

like pharma-therapy isn't fad-driven? i can write the same history about each generation of HiPointDem May 2013 #72

Sounds like another rationale to cut funding, no mattter what. freshwest May 2013 #73

Your post is the winner get the red out May 2013 #107

'You're cured! It's a miracle!' Meaning insurance won't cover it, so it doesn't exist. Only one freshwest May 2013 #115

If this makes mental health treatment less pharmacutical, less in a correctional facility .... marble falls May 2013 #78

You gotta draw the line in the sand somewhere. napoleon_in_rags May 2013 #89

You're right. Just because a set of behaviors can be described and labeled ... marble falls May 2013 #100

R.D. Laing made the same arguments decades ago - Good luck Scientologists with this new attempt NoodleyAppendage May 2013 #90

I agree steve2470 May 2013 #92

Great post. nt Union Scribe May 2013 #146

The scientologists will be thrilled. applegrove May 2013 #95

They could relieve the pressure get the red out May 2013 #108

My two cents: King_Klonopin May 2013 #96

Changing the perception of one's problems may help for a while. mia May 2013 #98

Anybody who would try to claim that schizophrenia kestrel91316 May 2013 #110

Denial comes more from stupidity or hatred. Neoma May 2013 #112

Of course it doesn't nolabels May 2013 #118

Who is Sane? mattnapa May 2013 #122

someone truly sane and brilliant might be institutionalized. ChairmanAgnostic May 2013 #136

great. now insurance providers won't cover treatment rollin74 May 2013 #132

+10.000 smirkymonkey May 2013 #181

As someone with a mental illness, this is insulting and disturbing. unreadierLizard May 2013 #174

K&R DeSwiss May 2013 #180

I have always figured that everyone is crazy. leftyladyfrommo May 2013 #185

'Hiding' it... CanSocDem May 2013 #186