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muriel_volestrangler

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65. I agree there probably wasn't much they could have done abbout the brothers

Thu Jun 6, 2013, 11:32 AM

Jun 2013

but that's why I don't think it's worth bringing them up in this discussion - even this level of data surveillance can't pick up something like them.

Yes, corrupt individuals can use blackmail - but more open organisations, like police forces, have a public accountability that the NSA has so far evaded. Yes, the simplest form of corruption would be "give me money or I'll tell your wife about the affair you're having", but there's also blackmailing of people who look likely to commit a crime, or might have confidential business secrets that these records point to. How many NSA agents do that is a very good question (even the total number of employees is classified) - we need to show that they themselves are monitored far more closely than the normal public is - that the chain of management knows the contents of their bank accounts, records their calls (not just the data - the content), does some checking that they're not handling suspicious amounts of cash, and so on. And their management needs to be kept under surveillance in the same way.

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White House Defends NSA Collection Of Phone Records [View all] dipsydoodle Jun 2013 OP

Remember TIA? This is the tip of the iceberg. Expect same with credit card and checking GoneFishin Jun 2013 #1

A lot of white house pronouncements smell like Poindexter's "Truth Maintenance" too. PSPS Jun 2013 #15

"a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats." Kelvin Mace Jun 2013 #2

Nailed it. PDittie Jun 2013 #7

+1.nt clarice Jun 2013 #52

They're working on putting cameras and microphones into your TV sets. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #86

+1000 forestpath Jun 2013 #94

I(s there ANYTHING from the Bush era that the current administration won't defend? hobbit709 Jun 2013 #3

Give me a minute........ NO rhett o rick Jun 2013 #6

Torture. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #17

Gitmo hobbit709 Jun 2013 #19

Obama hasn't sent a single person there. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #22

And the ones that are kept there are treated according to International Law? hobbit709 Jun 2013 #25

No. But it will take alot of money to close it, and congress controls the spending. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #37

That still doesn't excuse the treatment of the prisoners hobbit709 Jun 2013 #43

And it costs nothing to keep it open? daleanime Jun 2013 #45

It costs ALOT to keep it open. But the Republican controlled congress absolutely adores Gitmo. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #49

Is there anything Obama does that you DON'T defend? dbackjon Jun 2013 #84

Huh? I think you have me confused with someone else. Nice try. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #99

Gosh, who new turning a key and opening a lock costs so much? Kelvin Mace Jun 2013 #75

Besides the expense, which I believe is well worth it, GOP congress LOVES Gitmo. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #106

Ah yes, the "Obama is helpless" argument. I wish George Bush would have been that helpless. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #97

Where did I say he's helpless? I said congress controls spending. Is that true or false? JaneyVee Jun 2013 #100

And why did you bother to tell us something that is obvious? Were you making an implication? nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #103

Obviously it wasn't so obvious. You'd be surprised at how many people think he has a magic wand. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #104

I believe the President of the USofA has a whole lot more power rhett o rick Jun 2013 #108

According to what section of the Constitution? JaneyVee Jun 2013 #110

Good grief. You are sticking by the argument that the President has no power. Cant argue with rhett o rick Jun 2013 #112

No need to argue. It's called a conversation, but if you're done then I guess I'm done. Oh well. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #114

Yes I think we've come to an impasse. And arguing isnt bad. It's what Democrats do. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #115

So my question remains unanswered I guess. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #117

Yeah. Using questions to make a point isnt the best method. Try stating your argument as a rhett o rick Jun 2013 #118

Nah, he just assassinates them with drones now Kelvin Mace Jun 2013 #74

True. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #101

So that gets him off the hook for any torture that is happening now? Wow, to what lengths will rhett o rick Jun 2013 #95

What am I rationalizing? All I did was make a factual statement. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #102

Plezzzzz. Your "factual statement" was wrought with implication. Plezz. nm rhett o rick Jun 2013 #105

I don't get what you're saying. Are you disagreeing with the statement I made? JaneyVee Jun 2013 #109

Hell no. But why did you make such a statement? Were you implying that Pres Obama was rhett o rick Jun 2013 #111

My statement was that he is powerless on closing Gitmo. You need money, congress has it. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #113

Warrantless wiretapping Texano78704 Jun 2013 #50

Changed the names, but business as usual. n/t RKP5637 Jun 2013 #53

Eventually we'll have to start calling it the "Obama era" marshall Jun 2013 #73

That's Obama's idea of "moving forward." It's like Bush never left. forestpath Jun 2013 #96

TIA never died. It morphed into an operational NSA program, Thin Thread, and this is part of it. leveymg Jun 2013 #4

"a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats." I feel much better. rhett o rick Jun 2013 #5

Yeah. "If you haven't done anything wrong blah blah" and "My life is so boring who cares GoneFishin Jun 2013 #8

LOL. Yeah I expected that. "If they are only brutalizing the diry hippies, I dont care." rhett o rick Jun 2013 #93

Oh yes. And "but they don't actually record the calls themselves" [yeah right] and GoneFishin Jun 2013 #39

TPTB can know everything about me 'cause I'm so perfect RKP5637 Jun 2013 #56

There are plenty. ctsnowman Jun 2013 #59

What records? treestar Jun 2013 #9

There is an ongoing court case; remember, those affected are everyone muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #11

That's interesting treestar Jun 2013 #12

They won't pick up on the next one either RC Jun 2013 #24

Stopping us from what? treestar Jun 2013 #27

Read the Constitution and notice where they have torn holes in it. RC Jun 2013 #32

You've got to read the case law treestar Jun 2013 #33

I have a better idea. A much better idea. RC Jun 2013 #41

that's not likely treestar Jun 2013 #64

Most of we think of as modern day terrorists are made by someone killing their friends, family... RC Jun 2013 #80

Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2013 #78

But Tamerlan did give them some reason to think he might do something muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #26

Then what were they to do about him? treestar Jun 2013 #31

I agree there probably wasn't much they could have done abbout the brothers muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #65

I think the balance is there to be made though treestar Jun 2013 #72

I'm with you, treestar. cheapdate Jun 2013 #66

Exactly treestar Jun 2013 #70

And when the next attack happens we will all be crying, "Why didn't our intel pick this up?" kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #10

This ^^^^^^^^ treestar Jun 2013 #13

�Those who give up their liberty for more security neither deserve liberty nor security.� tblue Jun 2013 #83

It's a balance treestar Jun 2013 #87

Thats not the point joelfreak Jun 2013 #14

Um, if it's not done in secret then it would tip off would be terrorists, who try to stay one step JaneyVee Jun 2013 #18

If you think joelfreak Jun 2013 #20

I sort of agree, but they actually have caught over 200 suspected terrorists here in America JaneyVee Jun 2013 #21

'Suspected Terrorists' joelfreak Jun 2013 #30

True, but they were setup because of their suspicion possibly due to phone records. JaneyVee Jun 2013 #36

All or at least most of those were sting operations, where the 'guilty' had no real way of carrying RC Jun 2013 #34

Yeah, heard that before cause that's what Bush said! Pholus Jun 2013 #54

What do you mean by more open? Surely you arent advocating cstanleytech Jun 2013 #68

You and treestar called it! randome Jun 2013 #16

It didn't stop the Boston bombers, did it? OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #63

Of course not Phlem Jun 2013 #79

they didn't even need to do this to prevent the first attack.. frylock Jun 2013 #91

Maybe This Is Obama's Way Of Getting Rid Of This Once And For All....... global1 Jun 2013 #23

Of come on. Your reasoning is much too convoluted for me. totodeinhere Jun 2013 #40

Concern with motives is a fallacy. OnyxCollie Jun 2013 #62

Frank Church warned us in 1976. Octafish Jun 2013 #28

And Fletcher Knebel warned us in 1965. malthaussen Jun 2013 #38

Frank Church of Idaho was a great man. We really need a few more like him totodeinhere Jun 2013 #42

^^^^^THIS^^^^^ Melinda Jun 2013 #82

Can't say I'm shocked based on this administration's terrible record on blackspade Jun 2013 #29

This is the data mining, right? geek tragedy Jun 2013 #35

Madly collecting our private information while prosecuting JEB Jun 2013 #44

NSA Upgrade WovenGems Jun 2013 #46

Terrorists SamKnause Jun 2013 #47

OK, who around here is actually naive enough to believe . . . Brigid Jun 2013 #48

When we give up All Freedom fredamae Jun 2013 #51

Geroge W. Obama thefool_wa Jun 2013 #55

This is unfortunate, but not illegal. What is even more unfortunate is much of the populous had no still_one Jun 2013 #57

But the NSA does claim this is illegal muriel_volestrangler Jun 2013 #67

Not sure about that, with fiisa and all the other bs they did with the patriot act, I do not think still_one Jun 2013 #69

The NSA is not used as evidence because BrainDrain Jun 2013 #58

That practice violates First Amendment as well as Fourth Amendment rights. JDPriestly Jun 2013 #60

Unsaid: AtheistCrusader Jun 2013 #61

Millions? Every Verizon call made, every day? Orsino Jun 2013 #71

No surprise there, Obama always comes down on the wrong side of these issues bowens43 Jun 2013 #76

"a critical tool in protecting the nation from terrorist threats." Phlem Jun 2013 #77

I remember when being a Democrat also meant being a democrat Fearless Jun 2013 #81

White House Defends NSA Collection Of Phone Records blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #85

Thank goodness for British news sources marshall Jun 2013 #88

+1000 forestpath Jun 2013 #98

Amen! n/t Psephos Jun 2013 #121

U.S. Is Secretly Collecting Records of Verizon Calls (NYT) struggle4progress Jun 2013 #89

U.S. Is Secretly Collecting Records of Verizon Calls (NYT) struggle4progress Jun 2013 #90

Just exactly who and what is this man we elected in 2008 and reelected in 2012. Leontius Jun 2013 #92

Unaccountable trillions of dollars felix_numinous Jun 2013 #107

Any time a bill is introduced in Congress lots of thought should be put into the Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #116

Too many scandals at once quadrature Jun 2013 #119

I can hear it now ... GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #120