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Thinkingabout

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8. What proof do you base your claim?

Reply to cantbeserious (Reply #2)

Mon Jun 24, 2013, 01:04 PM

Jun 2013

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Snowden Says He Took Job With Contractor To Collect Evidence Of NSA Programs [View all] WilliamPitt Jun 2013 OP

This sounds like it was his intent and the cause group should start looking over their shoulder. Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #1

How About The US Government Intentionally Gutting The 4th Amendment cantbeserious Jun 2013 #2

What proof do you base your claim? Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #8

The News cantbeserious Jun 2013 #11

This may be reported in the news sources you read but since the NSA is operating under the Fourth Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #13

The puroported procedure the NSA followed is not Constitutional. The Stranger Jun 2013 #25

Where did you get your information of the procedure? Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #26

Is there some reason to doubt my information of the procedure? The Stranger Jun 2013 #32

That wasn't the question, where did you get the information? Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #33

The only reason to doubt you I'd because you have no proof. HeroInAHalfShell Jun 2013 #143

What court made that decision? gholtron Jun 2013 #34

has the Supreme Court ruled so? karynnj Jun 2013 #108

It hasn't yet come before the Supreme Court. The Stranger Jun 2013 #147

It Is Not My Responsibilty To Be Your Fact Checker cantbeserious Jun 2013 #44

+ + That's a good response to those who want to highjack threads about our civil rights. byeya Jun 2013 #63

This thread's about Snowden's admission. Trying to make it about civil rights is a hijack. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #75

Post removed Post removed Jun 2013 #81

If a poster is hijacking in order to complain about hijacks jeff47 Jun 2013 #85

He doesn't have to explain his point. It's not a thread hijack, it's an expression of difference leveymg Jun 2013 #88

You should probably go back and actually read the posts. jeff47 Jun 2013 #91

The same thought has occurred to me. It's not absurd or OT, certainly not a thread hijack leveymg Jun 2013 #95

A warrant with the US Census stapled to it. TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #131

Pretty sure it was a subpoena, not a warrant n/t brett_jv Jun 2013 #136

Because they didn't file for 300 or so million search warrants? MyNameGoesHere Jun 2013 #121

Thinkingabout, I think you may as well be talking to the wall...but thanks for trying. nt kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #125

Again with this nonsense. DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #64

The public did not "know" that NSA was obtaining phone and email records on everyone. Not nonsense. leveymg Jun 2013 #83

The public knew about the phone records karynnj Jun 2013 #110

After being lied to repeatedly, hard to believe anything they say askeptic Jun 2013 #112

Obama was a Senator then karynnj Jun 2013 #115

And neocons and conservatives and liberals with questionable views on spying on their own.... think Jun 2013 #3

Wow, spying by those with questionable views, seems this is what Snowden has done and thus he is Thinkingabout Jun 2013 #9

Does the fact that the FISA courts have already ruled that the NSA violated the 4th amendment count? think Jun 2013 #28

I see no such admission there. DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #65

I did misspeak. The NSA director only PERMITTED our US Senator to tell us think Jun 2013 #82

Was Snowden recently hiding that this was his "intent"? adric mutelovic Jun 2013 #87

I have no problem with that. Autumn Jun 2013 #4

problem kardonb Jun 2013 #7

It's a discussion that needs to be had. He brought it out. Autumn Jun 2013 #10

Oh please. This is old news. gholtron Jun 2013 #31

How do the courts decide christx30 Jun 2013 #37

I'm convinced this is abusive - 4th Amendment doesn't allow fishing for evidence askeptic Jun 2013 #52

The FISA courts don't issue warrants for "fishing." DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #66

What? entire program is "fishing"! ...and if the fishing finds evidence, it goes to law enforcement askeptic Jun 2013 #90

Not conversations - phone records - ie time, origin, termination, duration. nt karynnj Jun 2013 #114

Big difference from phone records old bell system and gov't mining those records today askeptic Jun 2013 #132

So: Last tuesday, you made a call to an escort agency. TheMadMonk Jun 2013 #133

If our names were included, I'd be inclined to agree it's pretty obviously contrary to the 4th brett_jv Jun 2013 #135

What if he did this during the Bush administration? lark Jun 2013 #12

Wait A Minute! cynzke Jun 2013 #46

Revealing how incompetent BoozAllen is is reason enough to give Snowden an award. snagglepuss Jun 2013 #78

I read the comments section at TPM. OKNancy Jun 2013 #5

I regularly read the comments sections of WaPo, NYT, HuffPo, Guardian etc. temmer Jun 2013 #14

so they're going with the cheney love instead? frylock Jun 2013 #119

TPM...and Josh are not what they started out to be...Josh has a Family now. KoKo Jun 2013 #120

So this was all a pre-planned gig railsback Jun 2013 #6

Bingo! cynzke Jun 2013 #47

It's important to keep easily distracted folks focused on the messenger, not the message askeptic Jun 2013 #15

Baloney! cynzke Jun 2013 #55

I think that's what they were saying when Bush was selling the Iraq War. railsback Jun 2013 #84

I foresee an unfortunate sharp_stick Jun 2013 #16

You may be right about that. In_The_Wind Jun 2013 #41

the boy sure was busy in those three months madrchsod Jun 2013 #17

That clearance network worked out fine didn't it. Booze Allen needs to be called on this. nt kelliekat44 Jun 2013 #126

Booz isn't very good at supervising employees treestar Jun 2013 #128

I agree, but one take it one step further davidpdx Jun 2013 #149

My experience with privatization treestar Jun 2013 #154

Yep davidpdx Jun 2013 #155

So? Pale Blue Dot Jun 2013 #18

My guess - KT2000 Jun 2013 #20

Greenwald. n/t Grassy Knoll Jun 2013 #23

So Greenwald outsmarted the entire US intelligence apparatus? Pale Blue Dot Jun 2013 #24

Those who value security over liberty will have neither in the end game. 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #42

No, Greenwald only thinks he outsmarted everybody. Cha Jun 2013 #56

Yeah, Greenwald screwed himself with that tweet Narkos Jun 2013 #62

What was he thinking?! Cha Jun 2013 #92

Big Ego, sheshe2 Jun 2013 #105

:( you got that right, she.. More Unraveling Update.. Cha Jun 2013 #107

Jayzuuus! sheshe2 Jun 2013 #111

I'm trying to read the updates before Cha Jun 2013 #113

Perhaps he's saying he was 'working with him' since February ... brett_jv Jun 2013 #137

Privatization of national security. What could go wrong? aquart Jun 2013 #72

So he is a traitor, and should be jailed. dbackjon Jun 2013 #19

. blkmusclmachine Jun 2013 #21

more correct title would be "NEWSPAPER says he said....." no proof he actually said that nt msongs Jun 2013 #22

Oh irony... tridim Jun 2013 #30

Isn't it a Chinese newspaper? Iliyah Jun 2013 #27

Not sure if it's exactly a 'Chinese' newspaper ... brett_jv Jun 2013 #36

Founded in 1903...a very good paper BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #57

We were there 1 year together ... brett_jv Jun 2013 #134

Yup...Class of '77 BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #142

The SHACK! Nice! brett_jv Jun 2013 #148

Too cool...I lived in Repulse Bay Towers, right behind the hotel BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #151

I know the complex you mean, we could see 'em from the back windows of our flat brett_jv Jun 2013 #152

LOL...I don't remember the popsicle guy BeyondGeography Jun 2013 #153

During the forties he would have been hanged for crap like this. He could have started WWIII. appleannie1 Jun 2013 #29

consequential whistleblowing temmer Jun 2013 #35

um.....no. jeff47 Jun 2013 #38

you don't know how much he knew when he joined Booz temmer Jun 2013 #43

Because seeking out information is not the same as stumbling across information jeff47 Jun 2013 #69

The irony dreamnightwind Jun 2013 #140

Seeking out information is the daily business of investigative journalists temmer Jun 2013 #141

The insinuation is somewhat misleading 99th_Monkey Jun 2013 #39

Whelp, he just admitted to espionage. Wonder if he's about to drag down Greenwald too? jeff47 Jun 2013 #40

Headline is innaccurate. /nt Ash_F Jun 2013 #45

The headline is inaccurate, but when I read the passage you attached... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #48

Maybe he chose that job because he was interested in that line of work? Ash_F Jun 2013 #50

Or, it could be BOTH. I know quite a few people who work for the NSA... Liberal_Stalwart71 Jun 2013 #94

That explains a lot to me. I did not understand why a Libertarian would seek Government demgrrrll Jun 2013 #49

Lots of Libertarians seek Government employment. Witness Ron and Rand Paul... haele Jun 2013 #106

Good answer. Ron Paul would have been an awful OBGYN. Neither one seems to have an ounce of com demgrrrll Jun 2013 #116

Then he is admiting an agenda, in addition to spying still_one Jun 2013 #51

Confirms what he's always said - opposition to universal surveillance. He's not admitting spying. leveymg Jun 2013 #54

Sure he is. Going into a company to steal information still_one Jun 2013 #58

He didn't "steal" information - not theft. He converted classified documents to a private use. leveymg Jun 2013 #60

That is called corporate espionage at a minimum still_one Jun 2013 #61

Espionage is a legal term with a specific meaning. Corporate spying is a very different concept leveymg Jun 2013 #97

It is both corporate espionage, and national security espionage, in my view. still_one Jun 2013 #102

"He converted classified documents to a private use." That's called "stealing". baldguy Jun 2013 #123

Is he admitting to doing more than making general statements to Chinese newspapers? DeltaLitProf Jun 2013 #68

Reporting that we are spying on Hong Kong and the g20 still_one Jun 2013 #71

Been in a coma for the last two weeks? jeff47 Jun 2013 #74

Isn't that called spying?... n/t EC Jun 2013 #53

Not necessarily. It's simply consistent with his personal mission to reveal NSA methods. leveymg Jun 2013 #59

One does not have to work for a foreign power to be a spy. (nt) jeff47 Jun 2013 #70

Legally, that element is essential to a charge of Espionage. leveymg Jun 2013 #76

Nope. jeff47 Jun 2013 #80

That's even more difficult to prove than acting on behalf of a foreign power. Nobody has ever been leveymg Jun 2013 #86

What element would be difficult to prove? jeff47 Jun 2013 #89

Intent to harm the U.S. He'd pretty much have to admit it to establish that, and I don't. leveymg Jun 2013 #98

Law does not require intent to harm. jeff47 Jun 2013 #104

Intention is the heart of any mens rea offense. That certainly applies to Espionage. leveymg Jun 2013 #118

So you're back to ignoring the legal definition again? jeff47 Jun 2013 #145

Have you heard of no disclosure agreements? still_one Jun 2013 #73

That's violation of a contractual agreement, not Espionage. leveymg Jun 2013 #77

Do you know he did not receive compensation by an outside party for this? We will see in the course still_one Jun 2013 #103

Yep.. "Snowden is a Spy".. Cha Jun 2013 #67

You're using the term "spy" too loosely. See my comments immediately above. leveymg Jun 2013 #79

So has everyone who calls the metadata "spying on us." treestar Jun 2013 #127

Exactly ... brett_jv Jun 2013 #138

Only in the same sense that animal rights groups spy on factory farms. Marrah_G Jun 2013 #93

So, Marrah_G, carla Jun 2013 #99

I am very glad that those doing the spying got spied on. Marrah_G Jun 2013 #100

I think this can be filed under "no shit" shawn703 Jun 2013 #96

That is why he is a traitor. He got the job purposefully to steal information. MjolnirTime Jun 2013 #101

Seems to me he used NSA's Methods to a "T" - is that what everyone's mad about? askeptic Jun 2013 #109

Spying on the Spy Masters usGovOwesUs3Trillion Jun 2013 #117

Tell me again how Snowden is a hero, and this isn't espionage. baldguy Jun 2013 #122

Rule #1 of spying on America: Don't give interviews bragging about it!!! Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #124

Well then ... GeorgeGist Jun 2013 #144

He broked the rulez. Major Hogwash Jun 2013 #146

So a saboteur from the outset. moondust Jun 2013 #129

I've said from the beginning that I suspect he's in the employ of some very powerful people brett_jv Jun 2013 #139

Anybody know if the South China Morning Post is a reliable newspaper, as opposed to fishwrap? winter is coming Jun 2013 #130

No, no, we can't talk about intent. davidpdx Jun 2013 #150