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TheMadMonk

(6,187 posts)

203. And as far as I can tell THAT first 1000' or so of tarmac IS NOT RUNWAY.

Sun Jul 7, 2013, 09:07 AM

Jul 2013

It's the error bar in the harsh statistics involved in kissing the ground as gently as practicable with several hundred tons of aluminium, cargo and flesh.

A pilot may use it if he has to, and in practice, (unless noise abatement/structure avoidance regulations are breached) no one raises a stink if he doesn't use too much of it, but best practice still has a pilot putting down BEYOND the displaced threshold.

Choice here is a pilot who made multiple mistakes as per your various suggestions, without corroboration from ATC recordings, or a pilot thinking he knew exactly what he was doing up until the moment he realised he'd fucked up big time, and it was that fraction of a second too late to correct.

Cockpit recorder may well tell a different story, but until it does my money's on the pilot deliberately shaving his approach and screwing the pooch big time.

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BREAKING: Boeing 777 crashes at San Francisco Airport. [View all] premium Jul 2013 OP

oh boy Nanjing to Seoul Jul 2013 #1

Photo from passenger: Hissyspit Jul 2013 #31

people walking away, wow Voice for Peace Jul 2013 #43

Yep, a good landing is one where you can walk away from. RC Jul 2013 #57

That's a relief... AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #74

That's a VERY good sign!!! Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #50

Not good sign nmbluesky Jul 2013 #140

One source says 2 killed. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #143

@AP: BREAKING: Hospital official says 10 critically injured in Asiana airline crash at San Francisco Hissyspit Jul 2013 #149

Thank you Hissyspit! Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #150

CNN Breaking News - San Francisco General Hospital and Trauma Center treating 8 adults, 2 kids, all Hissyspit Jul 2013 #151

@AP: MORE: The AP contacted police, fire and coroner's officials and didn't confirm any deaths in th Hissyspit Jul 2013 #152

The person in the green shirt...is toting a SUITCASE!!! hexola Jul 2013 #112

So he should. And those passengers should be identified and hammered. TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #182

They are carrying away their overhead luggage Generic Other Jul 2013 #115

It seems there wasn't any panic, which is a tribute to the flight crew. premium Jul 2013 #116

but removing overhead luggage? Generic Other Jul 2013 #125

Unfortunately, premium Jul 2013 #127

Sun AM: Simply landed short. Guardian has the most coherent report, CNN best video panzerfaust Jul 2013 #202

OMG - my daughter is at airport and was supposed to leave in 20 mins! Pachamama Jul 2013 #2

Have you talked to her? Control-Z Jul 2013 #4

Not to her - but my husband called and has been telling me what happened... Pachamama Jul 2013 #25

Do you know what airline? Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #8

She was on Alaska airlines headed to Portland.... Pachamama Jul 2013 #12

This was Asiana Airlines. The good news is that the aircraft is largely intact-slides were deployed Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #16

My husband saw it from gate burning - has full view. This was to be my daughters 1st solo flight Pachamama Jul 2013 #19

She is fine, the aircraft is hundreds of yards away from any terminal. NYC_SKP Jul 2013 #10

Guess all that outsourcing and sharing the wealth around the world worked out well. Too soon? nt silvershadow Jul 2013 #3

I thought that was the 787? NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #28

It is the 787 that was outsourced. The 777 was built almost entirely in the US The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #30

I know. NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #35

Yes, that was what I was responding to. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #37

Oh, you should have replied to him. NutmegYankee Jul 2013 #42

Yup, my bad. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #45

Whoops, my bad. silvershadow Jul 2013 #66

So if this were a 787 that crashed it would be an indictment of outsourcing. pampango Jul 2013 #200

If you're asking if one knee-jerk reaction of mine was intending to be silvershadow Jul 2013 #215

I believe in FDR's approach: legal protections for unions, lower tariffs and a strong safety net. pampango Jul 2013 #217

787 is outsourced backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #218

Many. This has been well-known for years. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #219

thanks backwoodsbob Jul 2013 #220

Asiana is one of the top-rated airlines in the world. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #29

San Francisco is one of the most dangerous airports in the world. Kablooie Jul 2013 #78

Except that the weather wasn't a problem today. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #82

I've only flown into SF one time in my life and I found the approach out of the south where you are kestrel91316 Jul 2013 #104

I too have only flown into SFO once, premium Jul 2013 #109

+1 tofuandbeer Jul 2013 #135

The side by side runways are what terrify me. Gormy Cuss Jul 2013 #174

No it is not one of the most dangerous airports in the world. pangaia Jul 2013 #214

Yes, they are davidpdx Jul 2013 #134

Epic fail. Leave the politics out next time. n/t Psephos Jul 2013 #49

+1 n/t cosmicone Jul 2013 #84

Thank You!! nt CokeMachine Jul 2013 #148

CNN breaking with it now... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #5

Possibly more like a very hard landing, smoke, it's an Aseana Airlines flight. (nt) NYC_SKP Jul 2013 #6

Asiana Airlines Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #13

Maybe clipped the tail section? sofa king Jul 2013 #99

The fuselage was destroyed by electrical fire. Given the debris on 28L... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #101

Way too low. The way the tail is sheered off tells the tale. TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #184

According to the rumor mill (Twitter) Warpy Jul 2013 #7

Just got a call from my husband - my daughter is deplaning from her Flight and being rebooked for Pachamama Jul 2013 #9

Phew!!!!! Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #15

Yes, indeed she was scheduled to depart at 12:28.... Pachamama Jul 2013 #20

I hope this doesn't deter her. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #24

No kidding!! The good news is that she has been traveling for years, including international, so I Pachamama Jul 2013 #41

I've always known how safe flying is, SheilaT Jul 2013 #137

Fears are not always rational and not always curable rebecca_herman Jul 2013 #169

Good news maddezmom Jul 2013 #18

Poor kid - first solo flight at age 9 and she is really shook up according to my husband.... Pachamama Jul 2013 #22

Glad to know she's ok! Iliyah Jul 2013 #56

Very good news, premium Jul 2013 #27

It's on CNN now. Faygo Kid Jul 2013 #11

Boeing 777 crashes while landing at San Francisco airport operated by Asiana Airlines in from S Kore maddezmom Jul 2013 #14

That's what I call "breaking" news mindwalker_i Jul 2013 #17

You know nothing . I hope that's not in bad taste . orpupilofnature57 Jul 2013 #36

The fuselage appears intact for now, with deployed escape shoots. Hoping for the best. nt SunSeeker Jul 2013 #21

Tail detached during landing Bosonic Jul 2013 #23

It's upright on the runway now... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #33

Video shows the wings still attached but top of the fuselage burned through. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #39

They're saying that the tail detached during landing and the landing gear collapsed. nt. premium Jul 2013 #46

You have to have a pretty violent tail strike for that kind of damage. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #48

I concur, premium Jul 2013 #51

The debris field starts right at the rip rap of the approach end of 28L Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #71

Thanks for the pics. premium Jul 2013 #76

Looks like the forward top of the fuselage is burned away, premium Jul 2013 #40

Given the aircraft is relatively intact, I think any casualties will be, thankfully, minimal. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #44

Local SF radio is saying that's dirt Brother Buzz Jul 2013 #58

Have no idea where they're coming up with dirt, premium Jul 2013 #63

No, that's burned fuselage. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #64

Yes, my radio is now saying the top did burned late into the event Brother Buzz Jul 2013 #67

Upright, off the runway - tail did detach. Brother Buzz Jul 2013 #38

A pic of THE Asiana Airlines 777 involved in today's incident: Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #26

Some additional pictures as a youtube video... PoliticAverse Jul 2013 #47

And the purpose of that promotional montage is? /nt TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #185

Here is the photo Crow73 Jul 2013 #32

Youtube video of the plane on the ground... PoliticAverse Jul 2013 #34

Are the passengers off the plane? sakabatou Jul 2013 #52

Info is sketchy ailsagirl Jul 2013 #55

Per Hissyspit's pic upthread, I don't think it's as dire as that: Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #61

I hope so-- my sister saw the black plume of smoke ailsagirl Jul 2013 #75

There was fire, but by every account I've read, the a/c was evacuated by the time the fire... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #85

I'd say the emergency personnel did (are doing) a good job ailsagirl Jul 2013 #168

Not Really a plane crash more like a hard landing warrior1 Jul 2013 #53

...more like a bad landing. There's debris on the 28L overrun... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #59

Bits of the empennage are all over the 28L overrun. Looks like the tail struck BEFORE the main gear Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #54

Thanks, premium Jul 2013 #60

They showed the overrun of 28L (the approach end) and it's strewn with debris... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #62

Agreed. premium Jul 2013 #65

You have to bang the tail awfully hard for that to happen, The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #68

If the aircraft lost power or control on final, then the crew should be appauded... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #72

Yep, the betting at AirDisaster.com is that they landed short - lost the gear, then the tail panzerfaust Jul 2013 #178

The were on the visual ... panzerfaust Jul 2013 #179

Maybe the baro was set wrong... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #183

"Don't sink. PULL UP!" Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #186

Descent rates show -1320 to -1380... discntnt_irny_srcsm Jul 2013 #188

AVHerald's report here: Mr. David Jul 2013 #69

LIVE LOCAL TV NEWS FEED Sedona Jul 2013 #70

Thank you - my husband travels the Seoul -NY route frequently via Asiana, so hedgehog Jul 2013 #95

Did Snowden get out OK?? thelordofhell Jul 2013 #73

If that was supposed to be a joke.... mimi85 Jul 2013 #176

From what I've heard the plane was at a high angle of attack Major Nikon Jul 2013 #77

Has to be an abort. Needs one hell of a lot of rotation to take the tail off like that. TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #187

From what I can tell, the runway has no threshold to speak of Major Nikon Jul 2013 #189

That part of the runway is called the "over run". Pilots are not supposed... TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #191

The technical name is "displaced threshold" if it exists Major Nikon Jul 2013 #193

AS per other posts. The pilot should have been aiming for a point much (1000 ft?)... TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #194

Actually no Major Nikon Jul 2013 #195

And as far as I can tell THAT first 1000' or so of tarmac IS NOT RUNWAY. TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #203

From KTUV unconfirmed .....no fatalities Sedona Jul 2013 #79

There might be two fatalities enlightenment Jul 2013 #103

Local Fox affiliate is now reporting that the premium Jul 2013 #113

True. enlightenment Jul 2013 #124

WNEM FarCenter Jul 2013 #80

Looks like one of the engines seperated and got pushed against the fuselage. hexola Jul 2013 #81

They're saying that all passengers and flight crew got off. nt. premium Jul 2013 #86

What does cartwheeling mean darkangel218 Jul 2013 #83

It means the piece of the airplane broke and spun off (possibly) sakabatou Jul 2013 #87

Ahh ok. thanks darkangel218 Jul 2013 #88

Cartwheeling is another word for rolling end over end. premium Jul 2013 #90

I don't think it "cartwheeled" in the sense that UA 232 did in Sioux City, IA Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #91

I don't think so either, premium Jul 2013 #96

Wings look intact - if they saw anything carwheeling - it was parts of the tail... hexola Jul 2013 #102

291 on board- ZERO killed. ZERO serious injuries. James48 Jul 2013 #89

...and a testament to Boeing. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #93

thank you for that! n/t KT2000 Jul 2013 #132

Despite the issues w/ 787, their aircraft are exceptional. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #133

Flying Fortress. premium Jul 2013 #138

I won a half-hr ride on one a year ago! Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #139

Incredible video. premium Jul 2013 #145

Hellcats of the Navy, baby!!! Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #147

He was actually stationed aboard premium Jul 2013 #204

You bet!! KT2000 Jul 2013 #142

Boeing builds awesome aircraft. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #144

Awesome! KT2000 Jul 2013 #171

Now reporting 2 deaths KTUV hexola Jul 2013 #97

2:02pm KCBS in SF just announced 2 fatalities, 61 injured. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #119

Not seeing fatalities listed anywhere else... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #136

Here's a confirmation from another SF station. avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #153

The reason for my questions are these: Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #157

This whole thread skiting about American exceptionalism is out of place here. TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #190

There's raw footage of the plane from local station KTVU here: NBachers Jul 2013 #92

747 SFO approach and landing runway 28 right cockpit view Sedona Jul 2013 #94

That's 28R... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #98

This message was self-deleted by its author Sedona Jul 2013 #105

Wow, that nearly put me to sleep. Great video, very clear view of the landing. Thanks. freshwest Jul 2013 #196

KCBS is reporting that 12 injuries but NO DEATHS AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #100

It is amazing. Octafish Jul 2013 #106

KCBS is now reporting two Deaths.. AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #114

I am sorry. It was too good to be true. Octafish Jul 2013 #123

That is good news! Thanks, AsahinaKimi. EDIT: Spoke too soon: freshwest Jul 2013 #197

Found the audio recording from the tower Major Nikon Jul 2013 #107

Great find, Major! Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #110

Near as I can tell the pilot never declares an emergency Major Nikon Jul 2013 #122

nbc is on top of it Iliyah Jul 2013 #108

burn victims went to St. Francis AsahinaKimi Jul 2013 #111

Several news stations are reporting 2 fatalities premium Jul 2013 #118

The plane looks messed up in this pic. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #117

The fire happened after the crash - look at this pic... hexola Jul 2013 #120

777 is a great plane... Agschmid Jul 2013 #121

Yeah, much better shape there. East Coast Pirate Jul 2013 #126

Gotta love the idiot Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #131

NO YOU DON'T! He put lives at risk for property. TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #192

He's probably in shock MrsMatt Jul 2013 #199

Not sure I would. Too much historical evidence of awipes kissing seafloors... TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #201

My point was, he most likely wasn't thinking straight, if at all. MrsMatt Jul 2013 #205

My feelings are different, because regardless of HIS actions, I DO KNOW... TheMadMonk Jul 2013 #213

Apparently my sarcasm was missed. Mr.Bill Jul 2013 #216

Another after the fire is out. Whew. uppityperson Jul 2013 #128

KCBS reporting in addition to the 2 fatalities, there are at least 10 critically injured: 2 children avaistheone1 Jul 2013 #129

So sad, premium Jul 2013 #130

I've taken many flights between Seoul and SF davidpdx Jul 2013 #141

Either something weird happened on final (regarding power or control)... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #146

Or, autoland coupled to inaccurate glideslope? The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #155

It was severe clear by every wx report. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #159

Could have been doing an autoland anyhow. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #162

No autoland without an ILS Major Nikon Jul 2013 #207

Yup, just read that myself - so that theory's out. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #208

I'm sure the NTSB and FAA already have a good idea Major Nikon Jul 2013 #209

Fatigue could have been an issue, even though they would have had an augment crew. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #211

I like Asiana get the red out Jul 2013 #163

Weird railsback Jul 2013 #154

Could the water color have become like the runway? From what is being said, the jtuck004 Jul 2013 #156

Not likely because even on a visual approach The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #161

I gathered that, but your is the most specific confirmation I've gotten. jtuck004 Jul 2013 #170

On a 777 there should be 10-11 flight attendants The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #177

The glideslope was out of service Major Nikon Jul 2013 #206

They flew it right into the ground James48 Jul 2013 #158

We don't know if they had a power (engine) failure on approach. Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #160

Engine problems usually don't happen that quickly. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2013 #164

Oh, they can happen quickly. Usually, not when the engines are at a low power setting... Cooley Hurd Jul 2013 #166

Wow! I was looking for that page, thank-you! I use that site to hedgehog Jul 2013 #165

Univision says at least ten injured, eight adults, two children in the hospital. RILib Jul 2013 #167

@AP: SF Fire Chief says two are dead in crash of Asiana jetliner at San Francisco International Airp Hissyspit Jul 2013 #172

CNN Breaking News - Sixty people are unaccounted for following the plane crash at San Francisco Inte Hissyspit Jul 2013 #173

I just heard that as well. mimi85 Jul 2013 #175

@BreakingNews: Officials: 1 person unaccounted for after San Francisco plane crash; 181 transported Hissyspit Jul 2013 #180

Breaking news: 181 injured 2 dead, 1 missing warrior1 Jul 2013 #181

The first 777 crash was because of ice crystals in the fuel jakeXT Jul 2013 #198

Did people power up their cell phones before things went awry? hedgehog Jul 2013 #210

Victims in crash identified as two teens Gormy Cuss Jul 2013 #212