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JDPriestly

(57,936 posts)
75. The Constitution prohibits the GOVERNMENT, not private companies from violating our rights.
Wed Jul 17, 2013, 12:19 PM
Jul 2013

These surveillance programs are "secret." That means that neither you nor I really know what is going on. Why would a program like this be "secret"? What is our government hiding from us?

Why isn't it open and honest and transparent with us as Obama promised?

I'll tell you what I firmly believe until the facts to the contrary are proven. I think that in some if not all instances, our government pipes right into the billing and records of our communications companies and siphons off all our records.

The case law has authorized the government to obtain pen registers from private communications services providers in specific criminal inquiries. The government has interpreted that to mean that it can obtain vast amounts of data of the nature of a pen register and subpoena via a secret court any specific records it desires.

Snowden told us that in fact the individuals who manage and understand the NSA's system, the systems managers, etc., can go in and get the records of any person whose e-mail address they have.

So that means first, that the government is abusing this program to go beyond just obtaining pen registers and thus wants to keep what it is doing a secret from us, and second, that the government is not respecting the limitations placed on it by the Constitution with regard to obtaining our papers and personal things with a warrant based on probable cause and with regard to respecting our rights under the First and other Amendments to our Constitution.

The government is overstepping.

In addition, to support my theory, please note that the secrecy about this program is so strongly enforced that even members of Congress like Wyden do not dare speak about its perils and excesses openly other than to hint that they exist.

And, the government hires outside contractors to do this dirty work. The extent to which our constitutional protections prohibit government contractors from violating our rights is a bit of a a gray area (or at least it was 20 years ago, and I haven't heard about a Supreme Court decision fully clarifying it).

The government is sneaking around.

In addition, the definition of terrorism in the Patriot Act and as applied is so vague and arbitrary as to be meaningless.

Why wasn't the guy who shot Gabby Gifford considered a terrorist while some guy who discusses a crazy scheme with a government instigator is hauled off to jail?

That makes utterly no sense to me.

Something stinks really badly here. It's all secret so pinpointing just what is wrong is difficult for an ordinary person like me. But something is very wrong.

Obama promised transparency. I understood that the government would be open with us, not that they would make our personal lives into transparent objects for their examination.

As I wrote yesterday, the propagandizing of Americans is what collecting our records is about. It makes propagandizing us much easier. The government can target our particular propensities and intellectual levels. The entire concept from collecting data to spewing government propaganda is anti-democracy and anti-human-rights.

During the 2012 election, Obama studied computer records and social networks to target voters and get them out. That system worked well. Now the government is incorporating that technique just as private companies have.

We don't want our government doing that kind of surveillance and then propagandizing and ultimately psychological control over us.

People who do not understand this don't deserve to be free and won't be for long.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Recommend! KoKo Jul 2013 #1
Was the good Senator around for the vote on the Patriot Act and such? kelliekat44 Jul 2013 #19
He served 1979 to 1990 n/t Gore1FL Jul 2013 #26
"good" is the last description I'd use for a man who thinks gays deserve aids. bunnies Jul 2013 #44
Sweet!!! And here's Snowden's response: GliderGuider Jul 2013 #2
The Rethugs love that they can pin Obama with surveillance that he's scaled back pnwmom Jul 2013 #3
You still really think this is about R vs. D... Psephos Jul 2013 #12
Bengahzi, the IRS, etc. pnwmom Jul 2013 #13
Oh suuuuuure, it was just the Republicans that voted for the USA PATRIOT Act. Suuuure. Android3.14 Jul 2013 #22
It was passed by an overwhelming margin of both parties. But it's the Rethugs now pnwmom Jul 2013 #40
it is nothing like that-- the media does NOT want to deal with these issues NoMoreWarNow Jul 2013 #36
No. This is not a manufactured scandal Android3.14 Jul 2013 #46
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #23
Because they're most concerned with protecting their own legacy, pnwmom Jul 2013 #48
Most elected Republicans have attacked Snowden. former9thward Jul 2013 #59
Do you have data to back up your "most" claim? pnwmom Jul 2013 #62
Just watching the news. former9thward Jul 2013 #63
Most of them aren't saying anything. They're just happy watching the Dems tear each other apart. pnwmom Jul 2013 #64
pocoloco Jul 2013 #60
He opted not to run for reelection in 1990 - he was head of the conservative caucus karynnj Jul 2013 #4
Of course, it was not Turbineguy Jul 2013 #5
Interesting. k&r for exposure. n/t Laelth Jul 2013 #6
Funny how the Cryptoad Jul 2013 #7
Your sentence seemed contradictory. Fantastic Anarchist Jul 2013 #10
Thats right, he has not exposed any illegal act. Cryptoad Jul 2013 #34
The Constitution protects our rights to privacy. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #37
That is your Opinion Cryptoad Jul 2013 #66
and the law can be an ass Swagman Jul 2013 #71
agreed nt Cryptoad Jul 2013 #77
Humphrey is a teabagging piece of shit. bunnies Jul 2013 #8
Huge K&R woo me with science Jul 2013 #9
The Guardian has to slip him $5 for this railsback Jul 2013 #11
Gordon "affirmative action is reverse discrimination" Humphrey? bunnies Jul 2013 #32
K&R Arctic Dave Jul 2013 #14
Too easy. AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #15
Sounds like the ultimate Teabagger to me. They alledgedly "love the Constitution", for some folks. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #17
Hate Cryptoad Jul 2013 #38
Ugh. I only made it about 3 minutes in. These are the folks who support Snowie! Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #42
why oh why did God make everyone of his disciples in Swagman Jul 2013 #70
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #24
Yeah, someone like that would be all gung ho, snowden.. ya Cha Jul 2013 #69
The irony is too delicious. If he had said anything in support of Obama, the reaction would be..... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #16
And this is the same asshat who accused Dartmouth of reverse racism. bunnies Jul 2013 #20
YAY indeed. All the whackos lining up to support a fugitive. Why are they all crazy? Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #29
Makes me sick to see this idiot lauded on DU. bunnies Jul 2013 #35
You know what they say, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". As unlikely as it is, we know who.... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #41
yep. 26 recs for a man who thinks gay people deserve aids. bunnies Jul 2013 #43
"Unsanitary & Immoral". Way to go DU. The perils of jumping onto the hero worship bandwagon. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #47
The people that start threads against Obama for saying kind words about a former President. AllINeedIsCoffee Jul 2013 #55
nice case of guilty by association Swagman Jul 2013 #72
"infromed" Classic!!! Number23 Jul 2013 #52
Isn't that precious? Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #53
This does not surprise me copperearth Jul 2013 #18
Message auto-removed Name removed Jul 2013 #21
No it doesn't karynnj Jul 2013 #28
Snowden's strongest supporters are people everywhere who love human JDPriestly Jul 2013 #39
I resent that karynnj Jul 2013 #45
Like Naomi Wolfe, who was unceremoniously thrown under the bus. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #49
Impossible. You cannot be for human rights and also support secret surveillance on JDPriestly Jul 2013 #68
my mini survey says the bulk of DUers overwhelmingly support Swagman Jul 2013 #73
That is nonsense karynnj Jul 2013 #74
The Constitution prohibits the GOVERNMENT, not private companies from violating our rights. JDPriestly Jul 2013 #75
What Snowden said is that HE, given his role as computer expert, can get all these things karynnj Jul 2013 #76
The system that has been devise, however, enables Snowden or anyone in his position JDPriestly Jul 2013 #78
yes I do think they should and will karynnj Jul 2013 #79
+++ marions ghost Jul 2013 #67
"his strongest supporters lie on the very far reaches of each party" Number23 Jul 2013 #54
The "gotcha" elements of this tit-for-tat notwithstanding, the HardTimes99 Jul 2013 #31
there was a difference between Bush and Obama karynnj Jul 2013 #51
Congress jumped to Bush's aid OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #56
The supreme court is not convinced it violates the 4th amendment nt karynnj Jul 2013 #57
Really? OnyxCollie Jul 2013 #58
That is not even about the current progtram karynnj Jul 2013 #65
I've not seen the TeaParty Right nor the RW Crazies in Congress supporting Snowden... KoKo Jul 2013 #25
BTW, meanit Jul 2013 #27
OMG, he's Ted Cruz & Rand Paul all rolled into one happy teabag. Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #30
"Provided you have not leaked information that would put in harms way any intelligence agent" arely staircase Jul 2013 #33
Russia's in a tough spot. I don't envy them. Pootie Put wants him off his doorstep, and I'll.... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2013 #50
BREAKING: Ding! Dong! Broken Clock Correct At Least Twice A Day!! eom 99th_Monkey Jul 2013 #61
Wait, wait! Don't tell me! Could Gordon Humphrey be yet another libertarian ahole? struggle4progress Jul 2013 #80
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