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IrishAyes

(6,151 posts)
67. Well, even Mark Twain couldn't always be right.
Sat Jul 20, 2013, 09:45 PM
Jul 2013

And he did love the catchy quip.

Yet by no means am I saying the Bible is strictly fictional. Even the symbolic parts may bear basic truths presented in a manner understandable by people in that era. That doesn't mean that a modern, educated person with a liberal bent should reject it either. It is worthy of study on a variety of levels. The purpose is elevation of the human soul rather than its debasement. I personally do believe in the Holy Trinity and the saving power of the risen Jesus' love for ALL creation.

But no, I don't believe any ordinary mortal human being on earth knows all the answers, or even all the questions. Or even needs to! People can make a hell of heaven or a heaven of hell if they so choose.

I've been privileged to attend the passing of so many terminal patients that I could write volumes on what I've personally seen and experienced. When they leave, I hold with those who like to open the window in the room, even though I don't think for one second that failure to do so would delay them at all. It's symbolism, sort of like wishing them a swift and easy journey or waving a last goodbye.

One of my favorite Bible stories involves the miracle of loaves and fishes. You can reject it out of hand although people did hold large gatherings back then same as we do now. Or you can - quite erroneously, I think - decide that Jesus literally multiplied the loaves and fishes. I suppose he could have, although the Bible doesn't really say that's how it was done; but that's beside the point. Those people were not exactly stupid, certainly not trusting enough to go hiking way out in the desert without carrying provisions for themselves just in case. But maybe if they could get free food, who doesn't like that? So what would be the greater miracle, physically multiplying a few items into many, or using a young boy's natural generosity to set a good example where people's hearts would be changed at least for a moment and they could see that sharing together is the best way? I vote for the latter.

That's why I see no need for people to get their shorts twisted over what or how much is literal, symbolic, or maybe even both. That's like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin - it misses the point. The danger lies in this fool's errand of demanding that it must be all one way or the other, especially if a person argues for strict and total literalism of every iota. That's bibliolatry, a kind of idolatry that fundies just don't seem to realize they commit. Worst of all, it's idolatry of self because they worship their own beliefs, not any higher power. I'd wager most of them will tell you what I've heard so many say: that if they ever find out for sure that a single word in the Bible isn't literal and complete truth as they want to understand it, they'll no longer believe in God either. Hubris personified.

So now perhaps you understand better why so many of my Bible Belt neighbors would lynch me if they thought they could get away with it!

Recommendations

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My wife keeps wanting me to attend the Promise Keepers conference this weekend exboyfil Jul 2013 #1
Good for you! calimary Jul 2013 #2
No one that values equality for all Americans should ever set foot in Promise Breakers meeting dbackjon Jul 2013 #24
Don't forget what Promise Keepers did IrishAyes Jul 2013 #49
Beverly Russell? exboyfil Jul 2013 #61
Sorry, that was so long ago I don't remember the names, and such a well known news story IrishAyes Jul 2013 #62
Thanks for the info exboyfil Jul 2013 #64
Without googling, I believe the mother's name was No Vested Interest Jul 2013 #68
Let me tell you about a PK hypocrite I once met. Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2013 #71
Bullshit. Atman Jul 2013 #3
Are you dismissing the results of the survey? cbayer Jul 2013 #5
Yes. Atman Jul 2013 #7
Based on what? cbayer Jul 2013 #8
If it makes believing nonsense trendy and cool and popular, then yes from me NoOneMan Jul 2013 #14
It doesn't make being a believer any of those things. cbayer Jul 2013 #28
+1 R Merm Jul 2013 #36
Huge kudos to you for attending the Moral Monday events! cbayer Jul 2013 #37
A lot of atheists sneer at the religious left IrishAyes Jul 2013 #50
Some of them do more than sneer - they actively attack them. cbayer Jul 2013 #52
Well, perhaps the atheists' militant wing IrishAyes Jul 2013 #59
I wouldn't personally take it that far, lol, cbayer Jul 2013 #60
You're reading much more into it than what's there Gman Jul 2013 #12
What specifically leads you to believe that premise, and hence, denying the survey as valid? LanternWaste Jul 2013 #18
It contradicted the poster's own biases, that's what. Naughty survey! IrishAyes Jul 2013 #51
But I thought Progressives were satan worshipers????? Iliyah Jul 2013 #4
No, we worship (and presumably elect) Satin! kentauros Jul 2013 #48
"Religion has long been co-opted by religious conservatives as a vehicle for political gain, but pampango Jul 2013 #6
As long as they amb123 Jul 2013 #9
They will. Igel Jul 2013 #11
What if instead they support the 1st amendment's prohibition on government establishing 24601 Jul 2013 #16
The progressive and liberal religious people I know are also secularists. cbayer Jul 2013 #32
Who is Public Religion Research Institute? longship Jul 2013 #10
EJ Dionne is one of the authors of the study deutsey Jul 2013 #15
I posted this in Religion yesterday. Here's a link to their press release. cbayer Jul 2013 #29
Looks good. Thanks, friend. ;) nt longship Jul 2013 #33
Oh, we will see NoOneMan Jul 2013 #13
I don't believe in fairy tales. I believe in God! hrmjustin Jul 2013 #21
Zeus or Apollo? NoOneMan Jul 2013 #22
The Christian God. The Holy Trinity. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #23
Oh Yahweh? He's the one that made a man live in a whale, right? NoOneMan Jul 2013 #25
I said you have the right to believe it is a fairy tale but I disagree with you. hrmjustin Jul 2013 #26
. R Merm Jul 2013 #39
Those damn reindeer bullies... awoke_in_2003 Jul 2013 #40
Well said. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #55
No evolved/educated person takes those stories to be necessarily literal. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #54
There are tens of millions of Americans who DO think this stuff is the literal truth. Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #65
Well, even Mark Twain couldn't always be right. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #67
Good on you. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #53
What a load. I am assuming you think that of all progressive religious leaders, than. cbayer Jul 2013 #30
.... NMDemDist2 Jul 2013 #17
Groups like my synagogue. iandhr Jul 2013 #19
my Xtian born again friend worked for Obama this time around wordpix Jul 2013 #20
And hopefully non-believers will soon Zoeisright Jul 2013 #27
Never going to happen, imo, so cbayer Jul 2013 #31
"We"? JNelson6563 Jul 2013 #34
I am part of what religious community, Julie? cbayer Jul 2013 #35
Stick around. Please. IrishAyes Jul 2013 #56
Why would it "never" happen? The trendlines are going in a postiive direction in the Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #43
While I agree that more people are identifying as atheists cbayer Jul 2013 #44
From this: Arugula Latte Jul 2013 #45
If you go to the data, you will see that 24%, not 42%, clearly identify as atheist. cbayer Jul 2013 #47
We non-believing Unitarians are bound for world domination! displacedtexan Jul 2013 #38
I would give almost anything IrishAyes Jul 2013 #57
I have been a UU since 1979. Manifestor_of_Light Jul 2013 #70
How do religious progressives feel about Enthusiast Jul 2013 #41
Surveys I have seen show that belief is creationism is strongly correlated with cbayer Jul 2013 #46
I for one can assure you IrishAyes Jul 2013 #58
Not soon enough for me... truebluegreen Jul 2013 #42
Soon? how soon? darkangel218 Jul 2013 #63
Bwahahahaha! nt ZombieHorde Jul 2013 #66
Until they own a thousand radio stations, won't make a bit of difference Doctor_J Jul 2013 #69
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