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happyslug

(14,779 posts)
58. Bankruptcy is mostly who gets paid first.
Tue Jul 23, 2013, 09:07 AM
Jul 2013

And that is the argument in front of the local judge. She says State Law MANDATES the pensions be honored. Thus the Pension has priority over any other debt. Remember Detroit not only has these pensions but other creditors. These other creditors are mostly the banks. Thus the fight is over who gets paid first, the banks of the pension holders.

Detroit may be in bad shape, but it has assets and income to pay its present debts, but over time as opposes to all at once. It needs time.

As to New York City in the 1970s, New York had the revenue stream, but ran into a revenue pinch, Normally such a pinch is handled by issuing bonds but the banks refused to buy them for this was the mid 1970s and the banks had other priorities. Thus the crisis of New York City and the "Federal Bailout" which was nothing but a loan till the tax revenue rolled in.

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/12/05/nyregion/recalling-new-york-at-the-brink-of-bankruptcy.html
http://scholarship.law.duke.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2598&context=dlj

One aspect of New York was its dependence on Sales and Income Taxes as its source of revenue. Real Estate taxes tend to be less volatile, but New York City had low Real Estate Taxes, but high sales and income taxes. Thus when the mid 1970 recession hit, it hit New York City hard, costs went up due to the recession but revenue was down due to the recession. The problem was more of a lack of money TODAY as opposed to a lack of money. All New York City needed was a loan to carry it over till its tax revenue came in, and that is all the Federal Government provided.

Detroit has a stable financial base, it is much lower then it was in the past, but it is stable. The problem with Detroit is that no one expects it to have hit rock bottom yet, and everyone is waiting for that to happen. Thus Detroit has a problem of a deteriorating tax base, stable but declining, and an inability to stop the decline.

The biggest problem is the Schools. With the decline in Detroit, revenue has declined, but the number of low income people, who can not afford to move out, has increased.

The problem with low income people is their children are the most costly to educate, for they need help most students get from their parents but given their family status that is impossible, i.e your parents can not help you with your homework, if they themselves can not read and write.

On the other hand, most state aid to schools assume that every school district has a balance of students, the same balance as the state as a whole. Thus State funding is even throughout the State, but at the cost the low income dominated areas get much less help then they need. Thus the shortfall has to be made up locally and that is the problem with Detroit and its schools.

In simple terms the biggest problem is state funding for education and the GOP Governor does NOT want to have to till the GOP controlled legislature that Detroit is the fault of the State's educational funding formula.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I hope her ruling stands. Jim__ Jul 2013 #1
Indictments ought to be handed down for the entire Michigan Republican Party Mr. David Jul 2013 #33
repugs like to ignore due process guaranteed in the Constitution wordpix Jul 2013 #59
In other words, pull yourself up by your fucking boot straps republicans! Rebellious Republican Jul 2013 #2
Who pays the pensions? ceonupe Jul 2013 #51
If, as the Judge ruled, this is a STATE Obligation, the city has to. happyslug Jul 2013 #53
The state constitution just protects them ceonupe Jul 2013 #55
Detroit has the revenue to pay its pensions, the problem is its other bills happyslug Jul 2013 #57
Bankruptcy is mostly who gets paid first. happyslug Jul 2013 #58
K&R Veilex Jul 2013 #62
Hope this holds! BumRushDaShow Jul 2013 #3
She also ordered that a copy of her declaratory judgment be sent to President Barack Obama progressoid Jul 2013 #4
I see this less as a political move, and more as a curtessy... Veilex Jul 2013 #25
Well, this throws a monkey wrench into the Repugs' fascist plan for Detroit! reformist2 Jul 2013 #5
I don't think it does Yo_Mama Jul 2013 #48
protecting pensions right in the constitution? that must piss the GOP off phantom power Jul 2013 #6
Next step of the corporatist coup, take down the State Constitutions by starting with education DhhD Jul 2013 #9
Pensions?? Why these people can already live Marie Marie Jul 2013 #10
Throw the book at the assholes! another_liberal Jul 2013 #7
Divert some of that 85 billion/month going out for QE3 matthews Jul 2013 #15
With only a small fraction . . . another_liberal Jul 2013 #42
Borowitz had a good idea Turbineguy Jul 2013 #8
Sorry, the Judge's order is meaningless. Odious justice Jul 2013 #11
Does that apply to Municipalities/Cities or just Businesses, though? KoKo Jul 2013 #14
It applies to anyone using Chapter 9 of the Bankruptcy code. former9thward Jul 2013 #19
State laws and const. don't go out the window...but if they contradict the Federal law is supreme. Odious justice Jul 2013 #21
I think I disagree with part of your assertion... Veilex Jul 2013 #29
What do you disagree with? Odious justice Jul 2013 #50
Perhaps you missed the link? Veilex Jul 2013 #52
Perhaps you are an idiot. Odious justice Jul 2013 #60
Hmm... Veilex Jul 2013 #61
No, you're unintelligent and unable or unwilling to respond. Odious justice Jul 2013 #64
I will concede that you do appear correct after further review regarding the article in question... Veilex Jul 2013 #65
Thanks for that info. KoKo Jul 2013 #31
a 943(b) filing should be a start warrant46 Jul 2013 #43
Ultimately it would then go to the Michigan Supreme Court. roamer65 Jul 2013 #36
As I pointed out in a previous post, that is NOT what the US Supreme Court had ruled happyslug Jul 2013 #54
It's the same MO over and over again. Ed Suspicious Jul 2013 #12
I don't live in Detroit, and I've always worked in the private SheilaT Jul 2013 #13
About the judge: alp227 Jul 2013 #16
Very good news for the employees and retirees. NaturalHigh Jul 2013 #17
It will not stand. former9thward Jul 2013 #20
there needs to be a law protecting pensions from these fucking pirates. they dont like the backlash leftyohiolib Jul 2013 #18
Contact the US Dept. of Labor about the Pension Plans of the City of Detroit. DhhD Jul 2013 #22
The bankruptcy judge will have authority over this, not the DOL. totodeinhere Jul 2013 #24
The Department of Labor has the write up for Plans so that you can inquire about your rights DhhD Jul 2013 #37
Correct. Cities should not be allowed to cancel municipal workers' union contracts and totodeinhere Jul 2013 #23
Yes the GOP are the "job creators" warrant46 Jul 2013 #44
HUGE K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2013 #26
G.O.O.D. MotherPetrie Jul 2013 #27
Fact is Detroit doesn't have any money. 1KansasDem Jul 2013 #28
it's the only reason why Rick the Dick Snyder had his tool file bankruptcy, notadmblnd Jul 2013 #30
I think you have it backwards Yo_Mama Jul 2013 #49
Unfortunately this is rather meaningless Sgent Jul 2013 #32
it appears that an involuntary chapter 9 petition melm00se Jul 2013 #34
This message was self-deleted by its author Morganfleeman Jul 2013 #41
The Michigan Supreme Court will uphold Governor Dick's decision. roamer65 Jul 2013 #35
. blkmusclmachine Jul 2013 #38
The State May Have to Pay them anyway Alan M Jul 2013 #39
I think the Feds should bail them out with a massive Urban Renewal program ErikJ Jul 2013 #40
Also a question of who gets paid first - pensioners, creditors or bond holders. yellowcanine Jul 2013 #45
To the top! And a link to a Dean Baker piece about this: Cal Carpenter Jul 2013 #46
The judge's decision will be overturned Morganfleeman Jul 2013 #47
As I have pointed out before, only if State Law permits such filing happyslug Jul 2013 #56
City --> Township of Detroit quadrature Jul 2013 #63
You're conflating two issues Morganfleeman Jul 2013 #66
No Ruling on the actual issue was made. happyslug Jul 2013 #67
However Morganfleeman Jul 2013 #68
Read Stockton, it goes into the history of Chapter 9 happyslug Jul 2013 #69
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