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primavera

(5,191 posts)

102. Atheism vs. separation of church and state

Sat Feb 18, 2012, 04:07 PM

Feb 2012

I go round and round about this one. Although I guess I am an atheist, I don't really think of myself as such, because being an atheist has more to do with an absence of superstition, as opposed to an affirmative belief in something. Personally, I just think of myself as someone who isn't afflicted with religious mumbo jumoboism; it's not any particular set of beliefs I subscribe to. From that perspective, I sometimes wonder about the necessity of forging a specific collective, group identity. It feels a bit like standing up and proclaiming one's self as a proud member of the not mentally handicapped. What kind of identity is that? Conversely, separation of church and state is an affirmative belief I feel strongly about. I really don't care whether you believe in the Tooth Fairy, so long as you don't try to manufacture public policy predicated upon that belief. It seems like a more practical identity, that has a specific goal and purpose, that isn't quite so overtly an attack on sufferers of religion. Any thoughts?

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�We Are Stronger�: Atheists To Hold Massive Rally On National Mall Next Month [View all] Great Caesars Ghost Feb 2012 OP

I'm an atheist going on record to say I wish organized atheists wouldn't pull acts like this in blm Feb 2012 #1

Yep. nt onehandle Feb 2012 #2

Why not? Rob H. Feb 2012 #4

Indeed. Why not, blm? Auggie Feb 2012 #9

woot! SammyWinstonJack Feb 2012 #107

You forget... SkyDaddy7 Feb 2012 #148

When would those be? Fundraising never stops in DC any more. EFerrari Feb 2012 #7

Mimicking them doesn't jive in my book. blm Feb 2012 #14

I rather agree, blm. Two dumbs don't make a right. They are already paranoid. Its like poking a bomb roguevalley Feb 2012 #28

I don't understand. Being atheist is dumb? or a rally in the Mall is dumb? secondwind Feb 2012 #55

no. what I am saying probably poorly is that if you poke at a bomb and it blows up in your face roguevalley Feb 2012 #98

Yes, openly stating you exist is exactly the same as JoeyT Feb 2012 #37

Every year is an election year. Hissyspit Feb 2012 #8

Today. In our new, 24/7 news/hype/reponse cycle ... rapid response team Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #18

. rhett o rick Feb 2012 #74

Which other groups should be silent during election years? NAO Feb 2012 #11

I agree completely nt Rob H. Feb 2012 #20

+1000 Canuckistanian Feb 2012 #29

Taking the message to the streets FrodosPet Feb 2012 #32

This message was self-deleted by its author FrodosPet Feb 2012 #34

+1 libmom74 Feb 2012 #54

Well said. I'd like to add, I dont think it is right to ask any group rhett o rick Feb 2012 #77

What act? ChadwickHenryWard Feb 2012 #12

Brilliant for once. Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #19

This Great, I'm tired of being Ignored by my Leaders bahrbearian Feb 2012 #22

OK! Say I'm your leader. I'm here for you. What do you want? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #25

The right to decide for myself when and on what terms I become a parent. wickerwoman Feb 2012 #42

+ a gazillion chervilant Feb 2012 #81

Come over to Europe ... Nihil Feb 2012 #118

Would do, but I'm already in New Zealand. wickerwoman Feb 2012 #140

Ah, also a good choice! Nihil Feb 2012 #152

I agree, i don't get it at all and have no interest in it, it would be different JI7 Feb 2012 #41

Why not? nt Deep13 Feb 2012 #48

As a self described atheist........ HowHeThinks Feb 2012 #58

hmm... chervilant Feb 2012 #84

Atheism vs. separation of church and state primavera Feb 2012 #102

IMHO chervilant Feb 2012 #143

I am disappointed in this post. Not because of your opinion but because you rhett o rick Feb 2012 #78

I keep it to my self. I get why people do religion and don't care what they believe till it's shoved blm Feb 2012 #91

I understand. But speaking up for oneself is important. rhett o rick Feb 2012 #95

This is not arganized atheism, its organized REASON. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #131

I agree. Gives people who say Atheism is a religion something to point at. bamacrat Feb 2012 #142

They don't need an excuse or a reason to do that DavidDvorkin Feb 2012 #144

or in the 2 years leading up to the election... BiggJawn Feb 2012 #154

WHY NOT? Taverner Feb 2012 #155

Really, legislative equality for what? Obamacare Feb 2012 #3

Recognition as an organized religion? onehandle Feb 2012 #5

Is all "success" religion? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #23

From reasonrally.org Rob H. Feb 2012 #6

Sure! Probably 80% of Americans are already largely secular; whether they know it or not Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #26

How do you feel about the OP? nm rhett o rick Feb 2012 #72

Hard to take you seriously when you just drop a turd and run. Tell me I am wrong rhett o rick Feb 2012 #97

Did you know that in some states JNelson6563 Feb 2012 #141

Funny how in this nation of "freedom of speech" Fearless Feb 2012 #10

Not the point. I don't think organized anti-religion is the cure for organized religion and it blm Feb 2012 #13

Good/God point. But? As an intermediary step? With some respect to tradition? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #15

Does organized religion need a cure? Sounds too much like a certain guy from WW2. Kurmudgeon Feb 2012 #30

Yes, the oppression Christians face in this country is absolutely overwhelming. JoeyT Feb 2012 #39

Freedom OF Religion, not for. Major Nikon Feb 2012 #49

Whoever predicted 30 posts in the Godwin's Law pool, you've won Rob H. Feb 2012 #69

I think you misunderstood. He wasnt suggesting organized religion needed a cure. rhett o rick Feb 2012 #80

Looking at guys like Rick Santorum, I'm beginning to think it does primavera Feb 2012 #108

Hahahaha! Says the guy who advocates for a Theocracy. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #136

It isn't 'organized anti-religion'. AtheistCrusader Feb 2012 #33

Organized atheism is generally perceived as anti-religious, and that POV humblebum Feb 2012 #35

I don't care how it's perceived, when the flaw is with the people making the assessment. AtheistCrusader Feb 2012 #38

Yes, you exist. You have rights and you have value as a human being. humblebum Feb 2012 #43

The "several prominent atheists" you referred to range from atheists to anti-theists and not a damn AtheistCrusader Feb 2012 #44

I'm sure they don't speak for all atheists, but they are responsible for the perceptions humblebum Feb 2012 #46

What?!? chervilant Feb 2012 #89

Like I said, good luck with that. nt humblebum Feb 2012 #111

Classic... chervilant Feb 2012 #134

And with folks like you who perpetuate the bullshit, we need all the luck we can get. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #114

So by that logic, organized religion must be anti-athiest Major Nikon Feb 2012 #53

You mean to say that organized religion is anti-non-belief? Boy, that's humblebum Feb 2012 #56

No, I wrote what I meant to say Major Nikon Feb 2012 #61

Yes, you wrote just what I was thinking. But, of course, the poor, lib_wit_it Feb 2012 #65

Good. then we are agreed. Organized atheism is anti-religious. Nice talkin' to ya.nt humblebum Feb 2012 #106

If you think I agreed with you, your comprehension skills must be severely lacking Major Nikon Feb 2012 #109

Agree or not, I specified ORGANIZED atheism, not humblebum Feb 2012 #110

They ridicule and condemn the adverse actions of organized religion. Big difference. Major Nikon Feb 2012 #112

No. As a matter of fact, they do condemn and ridicule religion, and religious belief, as well. And humblebum Feb 2012 #113

So what would those "adverse actions" be? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #122

Only in the way that ORGANIZED religion actively ridicule and condemn non-belief. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #117

Post removed Post removed Feb 2012 #119

BTW, organized atheism has a history of humblebum Feb 2012 #121

Really? Major Nikon Feb 2012 #123

History usually indicates something past, but that can be used as an indicator humblebum Feb 2012 #124

Hogwash Major Nikon Feb 2012 #125

+1000000 cleanhippie Feb 2012 #129

Major, it's not hogwash, it's bullshit. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #130

Right, the number killed in the name of religion is far greater. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #128

Yeah, much bigger than oppressing minorities and building a theocracy. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #127

No, I don't realize that. I don't distrust people without them giving me reason to. Kurmudgeon Feb 2012 #36

As long as shit like this keeps coming up AtheistCrusader Feb 2012 #40

Surely, this rally pisses off the right people. 2ndAmForComputers Feb 2012 #45

In an election year, a very bad idea. I would expect Obama to distance himself humblebum Feb 2012 #57

That's the point. HowHeThinks Feb 2012 #59

Hell, yeah! 'And just when IS a "good time" to broach the subject?' Joseph8th Feb 2012 #60

"20% of the population" - doubtful. Reliable sources please.nt humblebum Feb 2012 #105

Lookie there, more evasion of the point. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #115

You might want to consider displaying something other than humblebum Feb 2012 #120

I find your attitude to be so dishearteningly power-slaving that it borders on dehumanisation stockholmer Feb 2012 #103

Oh, nice one. Crusades. Yeah, you really got us there. And don't tell us to "control" ourselves. lib_wit_it Feb 2012 #66

Atheism is not anti-religion. Fearless Feb 2012 #47

Unfortunately, that's rarely the case. And that is just one of the reasons I am anti-religion. Not lib_wit_it Feb 2012 #68

I think some have different definitions of "anti-religious". You say you are not rhett o rick Feb 2012 #76

I agree. Fearless Feb 2012 #87

Then why do atheists let the anti-religious become their spokesmen. Leontius Feb 2012 #101

People like Hitchens crave the media ... the media crave people like Hitchens .... SomeGuyInEagan Feb 2012 #116

Well, we won't be "mimicking" them skepticscott Feb 2012 #62

Its not ANTI-RELIGION. FFS, man, get a grip. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #135

this is a political rally RainDog Feb 2012 #147

I love the name, Reason Rally. eyewall Feb 2012 #16

Heck, I'm in love with Reason. Is that wrong? Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #17

Reason is never wrong, eyewall Feb 2012 #31

legislative equality? madrchsod Feb 2012 #21

Any that gives preference to religious views and people dmallind Feb 2012 #63

I don't believe it'll happen. RUMMYisFROSTED Feb 2012 #24

The mere fact that a group is discussing it, means it is happening far more than in the past Brettongarcia Feb 2012 #27

I'm opposed to atheism being pushed like a belief system bhikkhu Feb 2012 #50

It's called the Reason Rally.....for a reason. dmallind Feb 2012 #64

Lack of belief? I believe in plenty of things. Just not some made up man in the sky who hates fags. lib_wit_it Feb 2012 #70

I hear you. randome Feb 2012 #94

It's not about believing in not believing, it's about believing in not being oppressed. Scuba Feb 2012 #100

Me too. Let me know when you see that happening. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #137

Probably true - just the way the media puts it bhikkhu Feb 2012 #139

I'm not an atheist, but I support this. Eom tavalon Feb 2012 #51

Richard Dawkins, James Randi, Bad Religion, Dan Barker, Cristina Rad Adenoid_Hynkel Feb 2012 #52

I love Christina Rad's videos stockholmer Feb 2012 #104

Since many are ruled by groupthink, it's impt. to let others know snot Feb 2012 #67

It's about fucking time! pscot Feb 2012 #71

I'm so much of an atheist... sofa king Feb 2012 #73

God bless Atheists. rhett o rick Feb 2012 #79

That would sting more if you were real. sofa king Feb 2012 #82

Did not intend it to "sting" at all. It was intended to be a light-hearted rhett o rick Feb 2012 #96

I'm sorry! sofa king Feb 2012 #145

Ok I get it. A little slow on this end. And I wish Pres Obama would kick rhett o rick Feb 2012 #146

well, I thought you were both joking RainDog Feb 2012 #149

Call it the "Million Mind March" Sabriel Feb 2012 #75

Great Post for discussion on the Topic of Atheism fascisthunter Feb 2012 #83

They "encourage participants to claim their identity". randome Feb 2012 #85

Huh? Skeeve Feb 2012 #88

Huh? randome Feb 2012 #90

Damn, I wish I still lived in Southern Maryland! kdmorris Feb 2012 #86

Atheists and agnostics score higher in knowledge of world religions than "believers" KansDem Feb 2012 #92

I support the recognition of atheist Gringostan Feb 2012 #93

Um? American Atheists, a non-profit with tax breaks.nt humblebum Feb 2012 #126

Non-profit is not the same as 501(c) Major Nikon Feb 2012 #133

Not a RELIGIOUS non-profit, an EDUCATIONAL non-prophet. cleanhippie Feb 2012 #138

I'll be there in spirit. Oh, wait. Scuba Feb 2012 #99

I kinda hope those that are trying to convince atheists not to organize BootinUp Feb 2012 #132

Wish I could be there Onceuponalife Feb 2012 #150

Let's pray for good weather. Bucky Feb 2012 #151

We're booked and going. RussBLib Feb 2012 #153