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KittyWampus

(55,894 posts)
9. That is absolutely untrue. From Der Spiegel a few days ago -
Sun Sep 8, 2013, 09:37 AM
Sep 2013

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/situation-in-syria-deteriorates-as-west-looks-for-answers-a-919733-2.html

snip
Yet, it is perhaps irrelevant who gave the order since the entire Syrian leadership is reportedly afraid that the defense lines will collapse. These fears have been fanned by a number of developments over the past few weeks: the unauthorized withdrawal of previously Assad-loyal militias to their Alawite villages; the feared rebel offensive; the declining morale of the regular troops; and the rising losses without military victories to show for them.

The poison gas attack was probably carried out by the 4th division of Assad's army. Experts and defectors agree that this is the only unit that possesses launching devices for chemical weapons. Immediately following the chemical attack, it shelled rebel positions with conventional artillery -- but was unable to take a single location.

Instead, the division lost at least seven tanks in the Damascus neighborhood of Harasta alone. A rebel video provides an insight into the lack of personnel among the elite division: Two crew members flee a burning tank -- but they are wearing no uniforms, no helmets and no radio gear. Shabiha militia members have apparently been forced to fill the gaps in the ranks of the army.

The images are highly significant and don't correspond with reports that Assad has strengthened his military position. Military experts and intelligence agents had been circulating this theory for months, ever since the battle for control of the small town of Qusayr in early summer. Under the leadership of over 1,000 fighters from the Shiite Hezbollah militia from Lebanon, Assad's troops were able to recapture Qusayr.


Snip
Nevertheless, the myth of a military turning point in the regime's favor has persisted since June. This has also hampered the search for motives for the poison gas attack: Many observers wondered why Assad should use chemical weapons if he is winning the war already. In actual fact, the situation has been difficult for the regime's troops for quite some time now. Since the spring of 2012, many of the army's positions have only been supplied from the air because all land routes are under the control the rebels.

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That's probably likely bigworld Sep 2013 #1
That is absolutely untrue. From Der Spiegel a few days ago - KittyWampus Sep 2013 #9
Even Obama now acknowledged that this appears possibly to have been the case at the G20 presser leveymg Sep 2013 #28
The source for the 4th Div. rumours are DEBKA, and that appears to have been disinformation. leveymg Sep 2013 #34
little more than hearsay soundsgreat Sep 2013 #2
Perhaps this is a hint? DonViejo Sep 2013 #5
With help from Iran? RiverNoord Sep 2013 #11
Sarin is just concentrated insecticide. Takes no great sophistication to make. leveymg Sep 2013 #39
its still classified as a VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #51
What - the use of VX or its recipe? Syria has plenty of it, but there have been no reported use. leveymg Sep 2013 #53
But that still doesn't tell us what actually happened daleo Sep 2013 #44
Which is worse, really? RiverNoord Sep 2013 #3
Then the absolute worst is if he falls and it all gets dispersed which we want to contribute to. dkf Sep 2013 #4
I agree - that would be very bad, but... RiverNoord Sep 2013 #10
So we punish Assad not for giving the orders but for losing control of his people? dkf Sep 2013 #12
Will you trust the rebels more, given that they have a substantial Al Qaeda component? daleo Sep 2013 #47
How safe will it be if the rebels prevail and then have control of the chemical weapons themselves? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #54
That's what I was getting at daleo Sep 2013 #67
We can eliminate the chemicals from the equation....that is one thing... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #68
agreed... VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #52
Fair is fair - then any strike against his forces also will have not have his permission. I do not 24601 Sep 2013 #6
then that is almost worse. Assad has lost control of the military. If this is the case he needs to KittyWampus Sep 2013 #7
Wow, you think Assad stepping down results in better control of CW...how does that work? dkf Sep 2013 #13
Same regime, general replaces Assad. See? KittyWampus Sep 2013 #17
I tend to agree that ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #23
We have already lost track where all the Syrian CWs are. dkf Sep 2013 #24
Or, it *could mean that after 4 months of pestering he said "What the hell, go for it." Turborama Sep 2013 #63
Sounds to me ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #8
For all you know he has already been removed. dkf Sep 2013 #14
He ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #19
The Rogue official. dkf Sep 2013 #20
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #21
Why would Assad have wanted to tell everyone he is losing control? dkf Sep 2013 #22
I disagree ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #25
Sorry to tell you but that is what they are saying... dkf Sep 2013 #27
Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #33
The officer may have been relieved of his command, permanently. We have the intercepts from that leveymg Sep 2013 #31
I think ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #37
In that case, we cannot agree to this being done in our names, and will oppose this war. leveymg Sep 2013 #42
Frankly ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #57
This is a slow-simmering regional war waiting to boil over with a little extra fuel. We can provide leveymg Sep 2013 #58
I agree ... 1StrongBlackMan Sep 2013 #60
After 2003, we have a well-founded fear of lies about limited wars that get us into longer wars. leveymg Sep 2013 #64
Exactly karynnj Sep 2013 #16
Exactly DallasNE Sep 2013 #65
That was my first thought DFW Sep 2013 #15
I read they have given up on the theory that it was the brother. Will see if I can find the source. dkf Sep 2013 #18
I'm sure neither of them was "directly" involved, and certainly not provably so DFW Sep 2013 #30
what a tangled web is being woven... madrchsod Sep 2013 #26
Sounds like they're laying groundwork for Assad to leave. blm Sep 2013 #29
The problem is, who moves in? Al-Nusra, Assad's brother, PolPot? leveymg Sep 2013 #32
It stands to reason there is a suitable replacement lined up. blm Sep 2013 #40
Brutal methods are hardly unique to Assad in this war. Both sides have to be held accountable, leveymg Sep 2013 #45
Unlike 99% of Americans, the people in that region KNOW that Assad was blm Sep 2013 #69
So, why did we, the Brits, and particularly the French organize exile groups and rebellion? leveymg Sep 2013 #72
I knew that, but, as it grew so did Assad's reaction to it. blm Sep 2013 #73
Of course, the entire operation was predicated on regime overreaction. These things always are. leveymg Sep 2013 #74
While ruining so much in the world. blm Sep 2013 #75
I'm sure no one was more effective at communicating to Assad the consequences of use of chem weapons leveymg Sep 2013 #77
+1 n/t wisteria Sep 2013 #55
Why not include this information from the article in the OP? Purrfessor Sep 2013 #35
Some folks here are determined to make Assad the victim blm Sep 2013 #41
Americans refuse to be victimized again, in the same way, by the same set of deceivers waging the leveymg Sep 2013 #50
Leaving information that contradicts the OP out of the OP Purrfessor Sep 2013 #59
The absence of falsehood is not necessarily the truth or a lie. leveymg Sep 2013 #61
It's not in the same way - discernment, historic context, inc. that of the figures blm Sep 2013 #66
Regime change by other means. Another Admin., another domino. How is this different, really? leveymg Sep 2013 #70
We'll see. Frankly I think they calculated that Assad will come back to the blm Sep 2013 #71
+1 n/t wisteria Sep 2013 #56
And so then launching more strikes could transform the army into a group of chemical-armed militias. David__77 Sep 2013 #36
Makes no difference Cryptoad Sep 2013 #38
Glad you are not in any position of responsibility. leveymg Sep 2013 #43
Glad there more like me in positions of responisbility Cryptoad Sep 2013 #46
We don't even seem to know, much less prove, who is responsible. If those in positions of leveymg Sep 2013 #48
Who is calling for Cryptoad Sep 2013 #76
So you think any war crimes committed by even the lowest ranking soldier JoeyT Sep 2013 #78
Yes,,, Cryptoad Sep 2013 #79
Wow. You've just pinned the tail on the donkey there ... Nihil Sep 2013 #80
Beats Cryptoad Sep 2013 #81
That would be good news. musical_soul Sep 2013 #49
I don't think that changes the decision much bhikkhu Sep 2013 #62
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