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Peace Patriot

(24,010 posts)
19. I'm afraid he's right--geoengineering is the only thing that will save us.
Thu Sep 12, 2013, 09:21 AM
Sep 2013

We need to expand our awesome (but heretofore fatal) cleverness, as a species, to how to fix what we've done to the planet.

There is simply NO WAY that we can rein in the population explosion and mega-greed that are driving global warming. It quite obviously cannot be done.

As to the latter--the mega-greed--the forces of greed have defeated our once viable democracy AND are at work in China as well--THE two greatest polluters of the planet. Without democratic control in either place, the pollution will continue unchecked.

Methods of population control are also not working. We are going backwards on population control here--with attacks on women's health clinics and the whole fascist agenda of turning women back into baby machines. And China's solution--limiting births by law--is too draconian, and is not sufficient anyway to solve the planetary problem: too many people, and all of them wanting cars, 24 hour lighting, air conditioning, heaters, power tools, year round fruits and vegetables flown in by jets from faraway places, the latest fashions tankered over the oceans, cow foods (cows very polluting of the atmosphere), and all manner of polluting products, from toilet paper (many a carbon-sequestering forest felled just for that alone) to computers (far more polluting than we realize) and on and on.

The few people being made uber-rich by supplying all of these products WILL NOT PERMIT any curtailment of their activities. "We the People" OBVIOUSLY have no power to override them.

The planet is going down. There is no question about it. A couple of years ago, the World Wildlife Fund stated that we have 50 years--at current levels of pollution and deforestation-- to the death of the planet. 50 years! To the DEATH of the planet! And we've made little or no progress on curtailing any of these planet-killing activities since then, and have no prospects for any progress in the near future, due to corporate control of our government, here, and out-of-control greed here and elsewhere.

I HOPE that there is a technical solution! The only thing I have faith in now IS our quite amazing technical ability. It has gotten us into the most terrible trouble, but I think that it is the only way out of it, at this point. I am an environmentalist. I spent ten years of my life trying to prevent the destruction of just one small part of earth's forest system--and failed. And the reason I and those whom I worked with failed is that the deforesting corporations are just too powerful. THEY control our allegedly elected officials, our laws, our government agencies, the media, the science and business departments of our universities, the courts and everything else. They destroy and pollute at will and there is no stopping them.

Or, at least, there is no stopping them IN TIME to save earth's ecosystem. We may well have a democracy revolution here but that is going to take time. The same for the other biggest polluter, China. There ISN'T time. That is the problem.

There are also new environmental movements that are possible--big changes of habits by many people--and a lot of local/individual actions that are being taken--from the local, organic food revolution to cities "going green"--but again, time is a factor as to the spread of such movements and actions.

I have thought about this long and hard. I agree with the royal astronomer. We need to get clever-er because we are clearly NOT going to get sustainable any time soon.

We have some further threats to life on earth that compound the problem of climate change--for instance, this on-going nuclear disaster in Japan, which now threatens all life in the Pacific Ocean. No solution in sight--and it is NEVER MENTIONED in our (corporate media controlled) political discussions or by our government!

That is flabbergasting. But, given the same phenomenon on climate change--SILENCE, while the life of the planet quickly ebbs away--it is really not all that surprising.

This is what we are facing--silence and collusion by all the powers-that-be.

I think that's why this British astronomer talks about "Plan B." Plan A, that the governments of the world would mandate and enforce reversal of carbon emissions, is "off the table." Plan A HAS to include the U.S. and China, and both governments are owned by the polluters. End of Plan A.

So, geoengineering is it.

One other thing we should think about is terraforming. Given the ballooning human population of earth, the vast levels of current pollution, the certainty of yet MORE pollution, the impossibility of a political solution (electing anybody who would change this), and the inevitable slowness of local action and large-scale movements, we need to start "greening" ANOTHER planet, as well as re-greening this one, artificially. Human life on earth has become UNSUSTAINABLE. EVEN IF we are able to stop global warming with a technical solution, we will still not have solved the problem of population growth and the product needs and desires of expanding humanity.

Further, it is very likely, if certain developments in the medical science field continue, that human life will keep getting longer and humans may end up becoming very long-lived if not immortal. Barring nuclear meltdown, nuclear war, social implosion and breakdown of civilized life, or other kinds of disasters--including the already in-progress disasters of global warming (which could well produce chaos and shorten life-spans)--it won't be long before genetic engineering, artificial body parts for all parts of the body (even perhaps the brain!) (brain cells have now been grown in "dishes"--cells that start making electrical and chemical connections with each other) and other advances for the extension of life become commonly available. We don't have the room, on earth. We really don't. If we are going to continue in this way--making ever more human beings, and extending the lifespans of humans, and if all of these humans are going to have modern conveniences--we MUST find more room, in addition to restoring THIS planetary environment.

The Moon and Mars both have water. We need to figure out how to make them have trees and grasses and an atmosphere.

It's rather an artificial mental construct to dub geoengineering and terraforming as unnatural, when those solutions rely on Nature to complete themselves. Reflectors, for instance, used to fend off some of the sun's rays, would have the intent, at least, to create better conditions behind and under the reflectors for Nature to flourish--for ice to form, for polar bears to have a habitat, for ocean temperatures to decrease, helping both fish and whales and humans in coastal flood zones, and so on. And terraforming does something similar--creates the conditions for life to exist. After certain actions are taken, to start things off, Nature then has to do the rest--and Nature is exceedingly creative at filling every niche with life.

Also, geoengineering for our immediate problem--the over-warming of earth--may buy us time to address the larger problems of fossil fuels, greed, lack of democracy and overpopulation.

So I say to the corporate entities who have destroyed our democracy and despoiled our very home, earth, go for it! Do your best! If you can create a refrigerator--so clever!--you can create polar ice caps. If you can create the iPhone, certainly you can turn CO2 into oxygen. If you can grow living human brain cells in dishes, certainly you can re-populate the earth with bees and birds and other critters and fill it again with trees. If you can build a nuclear bomb, certainly you can deal with the sun's rays. If you can invent the Ziplock bag, certainly you can zip the planet back into a viable place to live and get the Mars and Moon projects started to improve our options. You might even redeem yourselves so that we don't have to ban you from the solar system.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

No geoengineering, please. joshcryer Sep 2013 #1
It's too late for that, we're already geoengineering, just not on purpose... Salviati Sep 2013 #2
I have been predicting geoengineering for a decade or so. joshcryer Sep 2013 #3
We need to cull our population. Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #12
We need to *end up* with just 1% GliderGuider Sep 2013 #13
Since our 'elites' are entirely (ir)responsible for the situation Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #14
A lot of people agree with that position. GliderGuider Sep 2013 #16
Yes. I completely agree with every word/thought you write here. However, Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #17
Cool. So long as we walk into the bloodbath with our eyes open, it's all good. GliderGuider Sep 2013 #20
No sane person wants that. Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #25
Cliches about the French Revolution... JackRiddler Sep 2013 #29
Cliches aside, my point was simply this GliderGuider Sep 2013 #32
And to join this back to the theme of the OP GliderGuider Sep 2013 #35
It's not bloody if they are simply taxed out of existence. hunter Sep 2013 #22
Yes... Taxation... Mmmm. Ghost Dog Sep 2013 #34
Lessons of Volcanic Eruptions bananas Sep 2013 #4
It's been known and proposed since 2007: joshcryer Sep 2013 #5
It was proposed in the early 1970's bananas Sep 2013 #8
Oh, right, the video even says that was the original route. joshcryer Sep 2013 #9
"Greenpeace's chief scientist, said that Rees was right about the many downsides and unknowns" bananas Sep 2013 #6
The fact that it's even being considered proves we failed. joshcryer Sep 2013 #7
What if everybody turned on their air conditioners and opened the windows? trusty elf Sep 2013 #10
AC creates heat while cooling a space. Turn them all OFF for the desired effect & save energy. Coyotl Sep 2013 #68
I didn't think anybody would take that comment seriously.... trusty elf Sep 2013 #75
Terraform Earth first before we talk about Mars. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #11
Now that science is starting to explain where religion comes from cprise Sep 2013 #15
The idea that some science fiction action. sendero Sep 2013 #18
I'm afraid he's right--geoengineering is the only thing that will save us. Peace Patriot Sep 2013 #19
Please stop thinking about terraforming muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #21
You want the human race to have a future? Peace Patriot Sep 2013 #31
In a 'planetary crisis', you need to think about fixing the planet muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #33
Well, I admit I'm fantasizing that we could put NASA's technology geniuses in charge... Peace Patriot Sep 2013 #37
It's far easier to support the extra billions on Earth muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #39
It's not science fiction... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #42
This is put forward as a claim to solve the environmental problems on Earth muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #44
Sigh... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #46
It took hundreds of millions of years for cyanobacteria to build up enough oxygen in the atmosphere muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #49
Once again...Sigh... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #53
You need a rocket to get off a planet muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #55
too easy... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #57
What industry could be recreated with dead satellites? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #59
Actually... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #61
What is the pollution from running 3D printers on earth that needs to be avoided? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #64
Seriously? oNobodyo Sep 2013 #65
Then run your super-duper 3D printers on Earth muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #66
sigh... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #73
I take a pretty cynical view of all this.. sendero Sep 2013 #27
It will neither save nor destroy us, but it will stave off the inevitable--collapse of civilization Kennah Sep 2013 #74
. snagglepuss Sep 2013 #23
But it's going to SNOW this winter in many areas tabasco Sep 2013 #24
algae is a win win: you can use it to make fuel too, ethanol and biodiesel yurbud Sep 2013 #26
Covering hundreds of millions of roofs with solar panels daleo Sep 2013 #28
Self-important fantasy. JackRiddler Sep 2013 #30
I really love these arguments... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #36
+10000. politicat Sep 2013 #38
How much energy do you think it takes to build and launch an "interplanetary Conestoga"? muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #40
That's the problem... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #41
"energy or materials ... are actually quite abundant in space" - no, materials are not muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #43
I repeat... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #45
Plant a tree on Mars and it will die muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #50
To fund it, about 2% of the world's wealth. politicat Sep 2013 #47
Actually... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #48
Absolutely. politicat Sep 2013 #51
Orbital solar power is ridiculously expensive muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #52
It's already being done. oNobodyo Sep 2013 #54
I see no links that satellites are sending power to earth (nt) muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #56
The question wasn't if they were already doing it but if it could be done. oNobodyo Sep 2013 #58
You said 'it's already being done' muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #60
I did... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #62
Sorry, that was politicat in #47, not you muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #63
sigh... oNobodyo Sep 2013 #69
"These are small, inexpensive and so simple that you could build one in your garage" muriel_volestrangler Sep 2013 #70
LOL oNobodyo Sep 2013 #72
Maybe plant some trees before putting mirrors in space?? Stop deforestation?? Coyotl Sep 2013 #67
Why not both? oNobodyo Sep 2013 #71
We will stop our attacks on religion when they comply with a simple demand: DetlefK Sep 2013 #76
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